Sometimes I'm amazed by your anti-Japanese tone, Marxy. You sound like Japan's jilted lover! I mean, I know I probably err too much on the other side and you're just trying to correct the balance. But I think all too often you suggest that Japan just copies the west, or is some tangle of empty signifiers.

Personally I don't think The Simsons is a 'better' postmodernism than 'Super Milk Chan' or 'Oh! Mikey'. And, being of a rather anti-metaphysical mindset myself, I completely welcome what Takashi Murakami said in BT magazine:

'I think we won't need art and artists some day. That's why Japan is the future, don't you think so? We don't have any religion, we just need the big power of entertainment.'

That suggests to me that Japan regards postmodernism as a kind of anti-metaphysical utopia. We in the west are just too steeped in Plato, Christianity and the political consequences of the Reformation to ever throw off metaphysics so freely.

Sure, there are demographic issues in Japan's future and there's fascist imperialism in Japan's past. But the Japan I know is the Japan of now, and it's one of the most creative, interesting and intelligent cultures on earth.

And by intelligence I would include pragmatic and aesthetic intelligence -- quality of life issues like social harmony, sensuality, civilised aesthetics, environmentalism and peacefulness. Sure, some of the arguments being advanced on strife-torn, highly political US talk radio might be smart, but is all that protestant bickering 'wise' in the way most Japanese are wise? Is the sound of US talk radio the sound of a nation of 'content' in either sense of the word? I think not.

Posted by: Momus at November 1, 2004 3:13 AM

this was interesting.

>Personally I don't think The Simsons is >a 'better' postmodernism than 'Super Milk Chan' >or 'Oh! Mikey'.

it isn:t that i don:t think that the simpsons is better or worse or whatever, but it is just that the folks who were (still are?) watching the simpsons were divided into two groups. folks that knew what was going on (in terms of cultural burlesque/crit) and folks who didn:t. when i was in my early 20s in athens (ga), i hardly ever met anyone anywhere near my demographic who DIDN*T understand what was going on. it was a big, big group.

i can state unequivocally that no one (who is japanese) is having a conversation anywhere in japan right now which even comes close to a conscious appraisal of the finer points of the 'social commentary' at work in 'Super Milk Chan' or 'Oh! Mikey'. (and while i:m at it, i:m interested in hearing in concrete terms just what momus himself thinks these might be! nick?)

>We don't have any religion, we just need the >big power of entertainment.'

the big power of entertainment = the same thing it does in america. the big stink of cheesy. it just looks better to you/him/most of the world since it is exoticised cheese. of course, these comments aren:t suprising considering that murakami is making them ensconced atop the high ramparts of roppongi hills, which itself is a veritable tower of artistic bable that has most of the young, impressionable artists here enthralled. the survivors have rallied, and now all of the coolest art shit now is going down in the 谷根千 ('yanesen' area), far from the 'maddening' crowd and well out of the shadow of 'hills'
http://www.yanesen.net/

>That suggests to me that Japan regards >postmodernism as a kind of anti-metaphysical >utopia.

perhaps 'japan' does regard PM in this way, but if it does, it only does so as some kind of abstract collective subconscious. this is a BACKGROUND level psycho-cultural meme. it is NOT in the foreground of the thoughts of any ONE particular japanese person...or if it is, this 'ubernihonjin' is indeed a rare bird! marxy, have you met him yet? in other words, they ARE as momus says they ARE, but they KNOW NOT that they are SO. we have the advantage (a disadvantage in nick's eyes?) of knowing and being aware of what we are...at least in a matter of speaking.

>Sure, there are demographic issues in Japan's >future

wake up, nick! the demographic issues HAVE ALWAYS been here. the only question is that they are finally surfacing! one of my best friends in japan in a chinese girl who is working at a 'conbini' here in tokyo, and the stories she has to tell would make your hair curl. i wonder how many non-japanese asian friends nick has who are living in tokyo? more than it sounds like, i hope!
i:m not a sportsman, but here is an interesting debate on the racisim in the sports world that:s gone on recently. this compares poorly with the 'fair treatment' and even encouragement that ichiro has recently experienced in america in his quest to break a MBL record there recently.

http://www.japantoday.com/gidx/news85017.html

>and there's fascist imperialism in Japan's >past...

same song, second verse. this isn:t in the past, it is right here and now, and the right wing is a growing presence in japan. the current fervor over article 9 between the japan communist party (JCP) and the liberal democractic party (LDP) and the imperialistic resonances and undertones are frightening.

>But the Japan I know is the Japan of now, and >it's one of the most creative, interesting and >intelligent cultures on earth.

i cannot agree that japan is intelligent, although i do agree with the other two adjectives. i think marxy (david) WANTS japan to be more intelligent, and nick wants japan to be, well...kind of an easy intellectual lay. someone once said that 'the silence once broken can never again be made whole'

>And by intelligence I would include pragmatic >and aesthetic intelligence -- quality of life >issues like social harmony, sensuality, >civilised aesthetics, environmentalism and >peacefulness.

i think all of this is applicable if it is read with a slight modification. the japanese are interesed in social harmony...IF the society in question in homogeneous (and therefore 'japanese') but even in some cases this breaks down! for example, consider the handful of japanese that were taken hostage in the middle east a while back. it is common knowledge here in japan among the foreign community that these hostages were strongly castigated for 'potentially embroilling their country in an international hostage situation' in iraq, and were ostracized by various individuals (private and media) during their captivity and even upon their safe return. so where we have an OVERemphasis on TOTAL social harmony, strange things pop up.
i think that the japan the is often described on clickopera often reads like some OTHER period in japanese history...perhaps close to a modern version of the kamakura period or something like that?
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2133.html

>Sure, some of the arguments being advanced on >strife-torn, highly political US talk radio >might be smart, but is all that protestant >bickering 'wise' in the way most Japanese are >wise?

i think NOT talking about a problem is one of the best ways not to SOLVE the problem in question.

>Is the sound of US talk radio the sound of a >nation of 'content' in either sense of the >word? I think not.

who care about such superficialities as appearing 'content'? japan isn't content fundamentally (it is a virtual social powderkeg that will probably be set off by the ever-shrinking japanese (as an ethnic group) population curve...but it might very well appear to be content if viewed from a distance and in a different (non-japanese) language. otherwise, you just have to believe what people tell you or the glossy pictures that they print in the (fashion?) magazines.

Posted by: r. at November 2, 2004 10:57 PM

r. is pretty much right, although maybe even more pessimistic than i am.

I especially agree with the part about the Simpsons. The good parts of American culture lead to a certain kind of elevated dialogue or at least put people into camps to argue about the work's value. Japanese popular culture leads to no dialogue. When it confuses, people just shrug their shoulders.

Oh, I think there was some confusion at the end between "content" - the noun (naiyou) and the adjective for happy. I was using the word as a noun.

Posted by: marxy at November 2, 2004 11:24 PM

The patriotism of you Americans never ceases to amaze me, even those of you who are trying your darnedest to stay as far away from your homeland as possible, have married Japanese nationals, and renounced your citizenship! There's still some corner of your hearts that thinks the American Way is better. I have no such homelove. From the moment I first visited Japan I found the place vastly preferable to Britain in almost every way. I have also lived in the US and find Japan vastly preferable.

Perhaps, living there, you take 80% of this stuff for granted. Perhaps you don't value the things I value. It sounds to me like you value above all contention and political debate. That's why I talked about US Talk Radio. There's plenty of debate going on in the US and the UK. If you think Japanese attitudes to foreigners are vile, perhaps you haven't heard what Americans have been saying recently. Did you hear that there have been 100,000 civilian casualties in Iraq since the war began? Now that's xenophobia to write home about -- killing foreigners who haven't even done anything to you! But you're talking about the way the Japanese chided a handful of their own nationals for putting themselves in danger? Do you see the disparity? The UK and the US make calamitous mistakes and wage wars. Japan stays on the sidelines, its citizens relaxing in Hair and Make salons, conversing about chihuahuas. It seems exemplary to me.

You know, I once played a game with my (highly speculative and intelligent) Japanese flatmates, Chie and Shizu. I asked them to imagine they had unlimited power to shape Britain from the Roman period down to the present so that the outcome would result in a state like modern Japan. A wealthy, happy, stable country (apart from the earthquakes) with a sensible attitude to sex and the body, technology, collectivism, hygiene, religion, public transport, aesthetics, ethics... How could you make British people as damned nice as most Japanese are? How could you make them as economically successful as a nation? How could you foster a good balance between consumerism and ecological-mindedness, between commerce and collective values (the balance Kojin Karatani calls Japan's 'capitalist communism')? Shizu replied that the first thing you'd have to do is replace Christianity with Shinto.

So I'd like to reverse that game now and ask you both what you'd do, given unlimited cultural power over a 1000 year span, to bring Japan to the high cultural standard you seem to see prevailing in the US (all those people who 'get' Matt Groening's Gen X jokes, for instance)? Would you make Japan as multi-racial as possible? Allow Christianity in? Erase the 'closed' period from history? Make sure there was a good supply of LSD and other drugs in the 60s? Encourage Waco-style rugged individualism? Or is there nothing that could 'fix' the place? Is it some kind of genetic predisposition towards 'unintelligence'?

Posted by: Momus at November 3, 2004 6:16 AM

First, the Shinto explanation is a total sham, because it has very little to do with the moral concepts of Japanese life. When the Imperial Fascists tried to make it into a state cult in the late 19th century, they realized that it was totally amoral and had to graft on Confucian moral principles to make it work. I do believe that Confucian humanism has been a good thing for Japan, but also is responsible for Japan's preference for form over content (orthopraxy, not orthodoxy) and elitism. The "capitalist communism" is a Confucian adapation of capitalism and has little or nothing to do with Shinto.

Second, Japan sent troops to Iraq. I was against the war. It was a collosal mistake. So, why did Japan - which stayed on the sidelines - send troops to Iraq even though there was massive anti-war feelings from its people? Because the people on top think they know what's better for Japan, which takes us back to Confucian political ethics.

Third, the old Japanese system is crumbling and being replaced by American economic orientation. However, this will be disaster without also adapting the education system. As it stands now, the test-oriented education system's sole purpose is to identify the best possible bureaucrats for a developing economy. This no longer makes sense, and when bureaucrats lost their halo in the 90s, no one wanted to be a bureaucrat anymore, which thus destroyed the entire education system. Less interest in Todai and the entrance exam. There is no substance to the education system here, which is the root of the cultural void.

Need to go watch election results.

PS - Stop saying that I think the Japanese are predisposed genetically to group-think. I believe that it's all a result of societal structures.

Posted by: marxy at November 3, 2004 9:05 AM

Marxy,
I've met you before in New York and I came away from the experience thinking, "Gee, even though he's really young and relatively inexperienced, he sure does come off like a 'know it all' on all things Japanese." At the time I had already lived in Japan twice, and David (aka Marxy) told me he'd been to Japan once for a few months on a school program. It seemed that the combination of his ability to speak Japanese, his many (in his own words) Japanese friends, his [college] degree, and his bathing ape shirt were supposed to make me take his word over my own experiences in Japan. At the time I was in my 30s and still am. So thinking of David, I realize how when we are younger we can say a lot of stuff off the cuff and not realize how we sound.

I never told David what I thought of his views, but this thread is as good a place as any. First off, his stance years ago (maybe 3-4, not sure) sounded to me exactly like all the long term bitter/know-it-all ex-pat gaijin I've had beers with in Tokyo. Which is why I'm so surprised that he's decided to move to Japan, but I'm 'not' surprised that he's saying what he's saying. I find his comments exceedingly culturally patriarchal and condescending to Japanese people. They are also consistently condescending to non-Japanese as well.

I would like to say that David is needs to be talked to/publically (beyond the blogosphere) challenged about his views, but, that would imply that I think he's speaking from a point of view that is richly informed. I do not think this is the case. I think much of his attitude (yes, I think his words are more attitude than content) stems from his youth and need for idealism. i.e. Purity at all costs!

As a native New Yorker (read: inherently jaded) when I first went to Tokyo, I instantly understood the city and it's heartbeat and logic. I now prefer it to New York, and in many ways view it as 'more' New York than New York (new york isn't the diversity pool/artist haven it once was). Most people who write about/talk about Japan/Tokyo aren't usually from a megacity, so Japan's many megacities are new to them. I essentially agree with Momus. I think, contrary to what David says, Japan does indeed have content. I think Japan does represent post-modernity quite well. Most importantly -- and this is often the conceit of youth -- it is not Japan that is losing it's cool, it is David that is losing his sense of what's cool about Japan. The conceit (egoism) is: that you cannot/refuse to distinguish the difference. Momus is right, in my opinion, when he asserted on his blog that David looks at the mid-90s pop Japan with the same loving (somewhat delusional) eyes that Alex Kerr looks on the pre-Bubble era & Imperial Japan.

Japan 'does' have content. It just may be that you need more experience under your belt to understand and value the content it offers. When talking to jaded gaijin living in Japan who are disgusted with cute culture and fake this fake that, I ask why they stay. I almost never get a good answer. Good meaning 'substantive.' In this case, I tend to lean towards the opinion of those Japanese that some call right-wing, when I say, "If you don't like it, and you think it sucks, er, uhm...why not just leave and go somewhere that isn't so 'fake' and candyass?" I lived in Japan because I love it for what it is, NOT what "I" want it to be.

After I first met David I started seeing him pop up in the New York Japanese scene as DJ 'doki doki' (I'm not joking) spinning exclusively Japanese tunes, and then he started writing for Tokion after doing some intern work I hear. So, while I have a great love of Japan, and have lived there twice, I have numerous other cultural interests and expressions. But for me, (and I honestly hate to say this, because it's the worst thing to say to someone like David aka Marxy) David falls into the category of Asiaphile/Japanophile. I say this because I known white people who idealized Africa, but when they got to know the real Africa, suddenly they were these hyper-critical pundits on all things African. Similarly, I watch Christopher Hitchens (journalist from the UK) live in America and rail against all things American as a pundit (his American dream isn't what he thought it would be). I watched the same thing happen with North American/European Westerners who trek to South America as well. Their romantic dreams get tossed, and they come back bitter experts on South American culture. It's really quite funny, and rather presumptuous. David's pedantic blog is a perfect example of this age-old cultural chauvinism.

Let me explain in another context... Invariably, when you meet your favorite actor or movie star, the experience is usually a let-down (the star is rude to you, or dumb, or not as pretty/handsome, etc.), and many come away pontificating like insta-scholars about the music/movie business and celebrity. I think we are watching the same with David. He's obviously intelligent on some level, but his romance with Japanese culture has been ruined by too much information. So, now we are supposed to believe that Japan has no content, and Japan is losing it's cool. Yeah, right.

I can prove to you why David himself knows that he's espousing an ideal rather than a fact, and that Japan is NOT losing its cool. In five years (mark this date) David will still be pontificating/writing about all things Japan. And as cool as David likes to think he is (bape shirts and all) I know he would NOT stay around something 'uncool' and 'infantile' that long. But he will be still talking up Japanese culture, mark my words, and this date.

--

Anyway, to the point, I prefer Momus' technique of highlighting and exposing us to the Japanese talents/thinkers he is able to recognize. As for critics like David, I think that one should not try to become an expert on another culture until one has achieved a very high level of cultural expertise & aptitude in one's own culture. Having met David, I can tell you that he didn't seem to be one of the most culturally exposed/well traveled youth I've met in America. Put simply, before you try to tell us what's wrong with Japan, how about showing in some way that you have a firm grasp on your own culture and country--it would boost your credibility, and I think your words would offend fewer Japanese people, because right now most of this blog site is dripping with cultural arrogance.

BTW, I feel completely justified in being so harsh with my criticism of David because in another part of his blog he energetically ripped into Douglas McGray (Gross National Cool) for his views on Japan and even inferred that McGray didn't know what he was talking about since he hadn't lived in Japan (a common argument used by Western Japan 'experts'). I don't agree with all that McGray has to say, but David's ripping him for being 'superficially-informed' is like the pot calling the kettle black. David, who are 'you' to call McGray 'superficially-informed'?

Switch To iMomus ;^)

Posted by: NuYawker at November 13, 2004 3:13 PM

Nice flogging, anonymous blogger. This blog is welcome to your opinions. My snotty take on a lot of things usually fits a magazine better, because there's no threat of direct response. I guess I can say, I deserve a post like this.

I would love to say that there's not inter-gaijin rivalry floating in this post, but it colors everything we both are writing about Japan. I know more, we all say. On this point, I am as guilty as the rest.

(By the way, I deleted a couple of nouns from your post to protect my anonymity.)

There are a lot of vague hints to me not knowing what I'm talking about and being generally uncultured outside of things, which is something that you, the reader, will ultimately decide. This site is based on the idea - write what you know and what you can add to the internet - and while this guy above is pretty sure I know absolutely nothing about anything, I am trying to at least talk about the topics that I think I know. I would appreciate any corrections to specific mistakes. The point is dialogue, not attacking the messenger.

I don't think I ever spun records as "dj doki doki" in New York, but nice reference to my past. Creepy. I clearly know you who you are but can't place it from the clues provided. If you really want to open a dialogue, email me.

Thanks!

Posted by: marxy at November 13, 2004 3:52 PM