Marxy,
Did I miss some kind of discussion that went on about the lexical history of this kanji? Why the sudden need to post a definition? Also, a quick question, what do you say in Japanese when a female molests another female? A male another male?
Best,
R.

Did I miss some kind of discussion that went on about the lexical history of this kanji?

No, I just thought it was an interesting side note.

I would guess that the word always describes the one doing the molesting, with no relation to the victim.

ok, thanks for clearning that up. it IS an interesting note, i agree! thanks for the info.

There is no kanji for same sex molestation because officially there are no homosexuals in Japan.

Well there you have it!

Hang on, I'm not going to let you get away with that statement, Chris! What's the connection between officialdom and kanji? Surely language is created by the whole people? But you didn't want to say "No Japanese people admit that homosexuals exist in Japan" because that would be a racist statement, and untrue. You're using the Marxy trick of disguising anti-Japanese comments as anti-officialdom comments. "We're only against the government and the education system." Red herrings and straw men! Why don't you have the courage of your convictions? Why don't you just say "Listen, on the issue of homosexuality, the entire Japanese race is at fault?" Oh, because that would be both politically correct and racist. A wee bit contradictory, no?

Momus: Allow me to quote the great Southern philospher, Foghorn Legorn, "Its a joke son, ya get it? A joke"

You're using the Marxy trick of disguising anti-Japanese comments as anti-officialdom comments.

I think you're finding it convienent to be monolithic about cultures/nations in a way to battle my position, but it's silly to think that the U.S. or wherever does not change depending on the leaders. Anybody but Kennedy would have invaded Cuba, and anybody but Bush would have not invaded Iraq. Carter tried to cut down the CIA's dirtywork, and Reagan went in and reinstalled a nasty cold war counterintelligence network.

You may be right about the homosexual issue in Japan - it's a widespread discrimination unlinked to official policy. But when you go off on your anti-Americanism, you should realize that about 25%-40% of the US feels exactly the same way you do - although in a very patriotic way. They just blame Bush, not the entire country.

Western countries do change depending on their leaders, but it's a very limited and unrealistic line to say that Bush is a lone madman. I hoped for big political changes in my own nation up to and including Tony Blair's 1997 victory. But when you get as old as I am you realise that things will never change more than a few degrees left or right, at least in your own lifetime. And those changes will be on a fairly superficial level of policy, not of basic values. The thing to do is get on a plane and go to a place whose basic values you can approve of. For me, the country whose values I find most sound is... well, you know. You choose to live there. However much you complain, your presence there says it all, really.

nick said: But when you get as old as I am you realise that things will never change more than a few degrees left or right, at least in your own lifetime. And those changes will be on a fairly superficial level of policy, not of basic values. The thing to do is get on a plane and go to a place whose basic values you can approve of.

and robert says: now i understand. when you put it that way, nick, i actually DO understand where you are coming from. thanks.

Western countries do change depending on their leaders, but it's a very limited and unrealistic line to say that Bush is a lone madman.

No, it's not unrealistic. This is why the whole Left was mobilized against Bush in 2004: he wasn't just "a little bit to the right" but going so far off the edge that he was dangerous. I think Europeans have always been suspicious that something like Bush and Iraq would happen, but no one else but him and his cronies would have actually done it.

For me, the country whose values I find most sound is... well, you know.

Berlin?

However much you complain, your presence there says it all, really.

We're always having this debate, and I'd rather not start again, but as I've stated above, I very much enjoy living in Japan. However, I do feel like I am living on the backs of the Japanese because I win the benefits of a clean, ordered society without having to live the average worker routine to pay for it. More than anyone on the blog could imagine, I do act very "Japanese" in terms of my school requirements - drinking with the Prof, going to "optional" social outings that are in fact mandatory, staying late because all the other students have to - but I don't think my input has yet exceeded the benefits. As an economist would say, I'm getting a "free ride."

Also, if you every lived a normal Japanese life - as a student, employee, construction worker - you would definitely feel different about Japan. Being an artist/scholar in Japan is great - I agree. Being a salaryman who is expected to work until 11 on Saturday nights borders on some evil version of Hypermodernism.

I know this comment is late, but I thought I'd chime in. I don't think that Japan is more homophobic than the U.S. What is there simply manifests itself in different ways. The Japanese are much more comfortable with differences they can see, so blatantly feminine men or drag queens are fine, as are butch women (or as butch as an Asian woman can appear, anyway... I met quite a few Takarazuka actors while I was there... yummy, but not butch by our standards, really.) And Japan's socialized medicine has covered gender realignment surgery since the late 1990s.

I don't think that Japan is more homophobic than the U.S.

The U.S. has a lot of proactive homophobes who create their own identity through antagonism to homosexuality and a lot of liberals who believe that discrimation by sexual preference is wrong. A large majority of Japanese don't understand what homosexuality really entails or means, and overall there's more apathy than antipathy. So there is structural discrimination of homosexuality in Japan, but not outward hostility like in the Red States.

a little study of japanese history you tell you that Japan has a long history of homosexuality. One good example is in kabuki which once had all young male actors. To give some historical perspective, kabuki started with an all female troupe but was banned by the shogunate due to prostitution outside of the allowed territory. Changing the performers to young males did not stop prostitution from continuing in the troupe, however. That is why kabuki actors are now older men.

Young boys were considered extremely desirable in the age of the shogunates, maybe even earlier.
I suggest watching "Taboo" by Nagisa Oshima and some of you may be quite surprised.
A quote from a review:
"In the enclave of an all-male militia designed to protect the Shogun, does it matter that some of the men sleep with each other?"

There's certainly a lot of "classical" homosexuality, especially between samurai men and young boys, but I'm not sure how much the average Japanese understands contemporary homosexuality. Those stories have been kind of scrubbed from the history books.