You know, talking about that whole "who cares if it's real after all" concept: You may remember the movie Fargo, and its famous "Events depicted therein based on a true story. etc" warning displayed at the beginning...
You may also, if you read anything around that movie, remember that it was, in fact, NOT based on any true story. Cohen brothers openly said so in many interviews.

Whether they admitted it because somebody found out, or were planning on making an innocuous joke/scenaristic device (as they claim), I don't know... but it should just go to prove that Densha Otoko is hardly a unique product of Japanese pseudo-realism culture...

Funny you mention Fargo, seeing that a Japanese girl thought it was real, went to North Dakota to search for the money, and died in the cold.

I'm not sure this is a fair parallel. Did everyone involved in the movie try to claim from day one that this was a real story and deny that this was made up when approached about it?

reading through this site twice or so a month i always end up struck not by the fact that most discusions end up with japanese culture being measured up against amarican culture or some aspect of one against a vague equivalent in the other, but by how shallow the starting point for it all is.
Doing this thing in say Australia or Canada might bring something more fruitful than 'american antropology'. not sure if it'd work in france or eastern europe.

Well, I think America is hardly "the standard" but when comparing post-Industrial countries with each other, America provides a good comparison partner for Japan. At least with music, they're the top two largest markets. So, while comparing Canada to Japan or Australia to Japan certainly would have its benefit, I think America and Japan are probably the most apt for comparision seeing that they are the two largest economies in the world, but tend to have totally different systems for producing that success.

For example, how does Japan have such an enormous market for media and cultural products and a culture that reads more newspapers than anywhere else in the world, but rank very low on the media freedom index?

A very good comparison to make is between Japan and Germany (#3), but I rarely see anyone do it. Any takers?

japan and germany is a point and can be discussed till the cows come home, done plenty of it with a japanese friend who did a degree in social and political studies in, yes, america.
both countries same path from 0 in 45 via hard self-sacrificing work , industrialization etc etc then the fact that japan 'modernized' itself very much a german model (meiji) etc etc

what i'm trying to say is that the roots are somewhat deeper. someone was talking of tokyo as a modern city with a medieval footprint. in the sense that the land planing , divisions and politics of plots etc are basically the same as in edo jidai - so if tokyo ends up being a massive world city on the same level as NY or london the way it was planned the structure , the way it got there and the way it's mentaining itself is fundamentally different. donj't forget that tokyo (edo) was actually one of the biggest world cities (population, infrastructure etc ) before it was 'discovered' by black ships.

a couple suggestions here. if you really care that much about understanding the japanese media et al why don't you put more energy into looking at similarities and developments in it now compared to the fluorishing media in edo jidai. it'd be more sensible i think. or why don't you try measure american media by the existing standard (which is really a lot richer and more subtle than it's made to appear here) of the japanese media. makoto aida's performance in new york comes to mind where his group is doing a pseudo demonstration asking people among other things to speak using clear sounds like the japanese, not tongue-twisting american english

a couple suggestions here. if you really care that much about understanding the japanese media et al why don't you put more energy into looking at similarities and developments in it now compared to the fluorishing media in edo jidai.

I have always heard rumblings about an Edo-era fashion press, but I generally think that there is not enough research about the development of post-war media and entertainment markets in Japan. Looking from the point of legal framework and industrial organization, Japan's entertainment industry resembles America pre-60s (before the underground press for "consumer goods", RICO laws, and free agency). Of course, if you believe that analysis of Japan is above all existing economic and sociological theories of business organization, then yes, I am barking up the wrong tree.

why don't you try measure american media by the existing standard (which is really a lot richer and more subtle than it's made to appear here) of the japanese media.

I am interested in "mass culture" - not total culture. Makoto Aida is great, but he is hardly a driving force in the entertainment world. I don't think it's fair to compare Aida Makoto to Survivor, but it is interesting to compare Survivor to Ai-Nori (which was semi-scripted).

makoto aida's performance in new york comes to mind where his group is doing a pseudo demonstration asking people among other things to speak using clear sounds like the japanese, not tongue-twisting american english

This seems more like high art than popular entertainment. While I bemoan the fact that organized crime is behind a good deal of the art galleries in japan, I tend to think that Japanese high artists make work on the same level as their international peers. I don't feel the same about the less erudite popular culture businesses.

While I bemoan the fact that organized crime is behind a good deal of the art galleries in japan

I googled this and the only article I could find linking organized crime and art in Japan was another Neomarxisme post.

This post, made last December, also says that real estate and brands in Harajuku are run by the yakuza, as well as pop music management companies. It's interesting that these occupations all "reduce" to the yakuza, but the yakuza themselves never "reduce" to more innocuous occupations. But if the yakuza are now running fashion companies, music companies and art galleries, why continue to call them "the yakuza"? Surely it would be better to call them "arty media yuppy types"? What exactly defines them as "yakuza"?

There are references to the yakuza takeover of the Japanese art market in "Tokyo Underworld" and the more academic books about organized crime in Japan.

In terms of business practice, organized crime-backed firms tend to:

It seems to me that these criteria also apply to Enron, which puts the art galleries in question in exactly the same position as President Bush.

but when comparing post-Industrial countries with each other, America provides a good comparison partner for Japan. At least with music, they're the top two largest markets.

aside from 'post-industrial' like any post- word being vague and so late 20C the way Japan has arrived at it's post-industrial state has little to do with the way America has, even with the way germany (which as we agreed earlier had a much more similar path to japan in recent history than america) has.

so size is the ultimate standard of comparison. Let's put the bollywood soundtrack industry in the equation as well mount everest and elephants and planet jupiter.
layers upon layers of texture and subtlety fall out of sight.

practically speaking the japanese music industry, is to start with targeted domestiaclly and that's by and large the scope and aspiration (leaving out the exceptions here which should be treated as separate cases anyway). The fact that it reached such a scale is remarkable. i'm quite uninformed statistically but i suspect a large part of the american music industry ,sales and all, are domestic. possibly enough to still keep it at the top. Even if this had been the case the drive behind the american entertainment industry is an implicit belief that it embodies some sort of universal values, from content to marketing strategies.

it'd take a music industry commodore perry to force open the japanese music and enterntainment industry to the world, but that only after there's a fair share or armenian, romanian, mongolian and so forth plain, un-ethnic, un-exotic pop equally distributed in the international charts. Despite it's size, the japanese music industry, like the bulgarian or israeli music industry is a tiny speck in the english-speaking world of pop.

it seems to me ridiculous to put the japanese music industry next to the american one especially while using the same biased logic that has created this unbalanced state.

I tend to think that Japanese high artists make work on the same level as their international peers. I don't feel the same about the less erudite popular culture businesses.

I'd be inclinded to think (and you seem to state that much stronger than i can , when talking of murakami for example) that the the patterns are not that different in 'hi art' and popular media in japan. and anyway even if it is of a decent international standard what good is it if the whole show is run by the yakuza anyway ... it's all yakuza's secret plan to take manhattan and berlin.

It seems to me that these criteria also apply to Enron, which puts the art galleries in question in exactly the same position as President Bush.

I know you don't believe it because you're into essentialism, but there's this whole crazy group of Americans who dislike Pres. Bush and Enron! And we don't like organized crime either!

Well, you know, I'd challenge you to make one, just one, post saying something like "Whatever I say about Japan, let it be known that the context of these posts is that the President of the US is much, much worse than any Japanese person, and that my own nation, the US, is by far the biggest current threat to world peace and stability and certainly can't serve as a model, in its business, social or political practises, for any other nation."

I don't know why I need to waste my readers' time with anti-Bush posts, when we all essentially feel that way (except maybe Chris B). Neomarxisme isn't a newspaper - it's a site about behind-the-scenes, explantory looks at Japan. If you want to start your own countersite about the same idea based on your authority of having been to Japan a couple of times and knowing some Japanese people, go for it.

certainly can't serve as a model, in its business, social or political practises, for any other nation

I'm so bored of this Marxy character-sniping and thread-derailing. How are other readers supposed to comment on Densha Otoko when the conversation eventually turns to what an asshole I am because I am American? Your posts never make me reconsider anything because they are driven solely at destroying my credibility, stealing the spotlight, and pissing me off. When talking about issues with friends, normal people talk in much more courteous tones and say things like, yes, that is true, BUT...

I know many people who are well-versed in Japan who disagree with me, but debating them is actually pleasant. I learn something. This whole thing is just an awful chore that raises my blood pressure daily. It's like arguing with a Creationist.

never make me reconsider anything because they are driven solely at destroying my credibility, stealing the spotlight, and pissing me off.

i don't think anyone has an issue with your nationality as such only with the fact that , however different or enlightened your personal beliefs may be , your way of delivering them, your inability to see the subtle details, your refusal to step off the moral hi-horse, your actual stubborness in pursueing all the above while sloganing out the opposite, your inability to accept that there might be valid ways of thinking and doing entirely different to yours etc, makes you little different from mr. bush and inevitably you're gonna get these kind of responses.

practically speaking the japanese music industry, is to start with targeted domestiaclly...The fact that it reached such a scale is remarkable

Why is that remarkable? I think it's hardly a stretch to postulate that a music market grows proportionally with the size of the total economy, and if Japan has the second largest economy in the world, I am not shocked to see that it also has the second largest music market in the world. However, prices for recorded music in Japan are most definitely the highest internationally (thanks to a legal cartel on prices), so if you look at music/per capita, Japan actually ranks pretty low. That's to say, they're spending a lot of money on music, but not getting much music for their yen.

it seems to me ridiculous to put the japanese music industry next to the american one especially while using the same biased logic that has created this unbalanced state.

Germany and Frances's markets are mostly imports, and Japan and America resemble each other in the fact that they are both primarily based on domestic releases. Of course, Japan's market isn't "supposed" to be like the American market, and what's interesting is looking at the differences. What do artist management jimushos do to market information flows? What does the lack of a critical press do to the type of music eventually sold to consumers? These are all questions easily answered by looking at organizational theory, and I'm not sure why it is that everyone is so furious that someone wants to ask how the Japanese market works without just assuming that it's all cultural magic.

I'm not particuarly saying that America has this amazing, fair music market - is there anyone more hated than American major labels or the RIAA? - but I do think there is a lot of evidence that independent media criticism gives encouragement to organizational decision makers to support innovation. The point is not to say: Japan is different and therefore wrong. What I'm trying to do is say - this is the difference in economic arrangements and organizational patterns - how do they change what we perceive as "culture"?

And back to the Densha Otoko/Star Wars theme, I find it hard to prove that Japanese magazines intentionally choose to avoid criticism until you can prove that they can criticize, which none of you on the other side of the fence seem interesting in actually putting legwork into.

your way of delivering them, your inability to see the subtle details, your refusal to step off the moral hi-horse, your actual stubborness in pursueing all the above while sloganing out the opposite, your inability to accept that there might be valid ways of thinking and doing entirely different to yours

Listen I told you guys to stop picking on Momus.

Might I politely suggest, with lots of smiley emoticons, that we did talk about the reaction to "Lost in Translation" and show that Japanese critics were quite willing to say its representation of Japanese was "awful". But that the people who most effectively scuppered the film in Japan were its own distributors, which is a very odd and interesting thing, I think. The cynical response is "Japanese can't take criticism" or "They wanted to sell more DVDs than cinema tickets". But another response is "They lost money there. And isn't it interesting that some things are worth more than money, and that the capitalist system in Japan operates in ways which are cultural as well as commercial?"

How are other readers supposed to comment on Densha Otoko

this thread didn't start as a neutral 'let's talk about densha otoko' but as an ideolodical, aggressive and strategic spiel ..

the initial layout was not so much for readers for readers to comment on densha otoko but on your deep cultural insights. There might be only two ways to do this. 1. to , ultimately, hail the depth of your penetration which us , the less insightful can only dream to reach one day after years of heroic living in a torturous, corrupted society or 2. derail the conversation (if that's what you choose to call it) like momus or i did in this thread

remarkable


Why is that remarkable?

a positive adjective about japan nearly passed uncensored on this website ...

this thread didn't start as a neutral 'let's talk about densha otoko' but as an ideolodical, aggressive and strategic spiel ..

No, go read this particular article. A Japanese writer is asking the exact same questions I am about the authenticity of "Densha Otoko." I'm trying to show that while my opinions may be influenced by Western philosophical orientations, many media-literate Japanese people feel the exact same way I do - without my poisonous breath entering their personal space.

1. to , ultimately, hail the depth of your penetration which us , the less insightful can only dream to reach one day after years of heroic living in a torturous, corrupted society

I think the other thing everyone misunderstands - which is my fault - is that I dislike living in Japan. I am highly involved in traditional Japanese organizations - like the zemi system - and generally enjoy being here. If I lived in America, my blog would be equally critical of bad American pop culture. But I live here, and I know that if I don't talk about these specific issues, I don't think anyone will bring them up - just because no one is as pathologically nerdy about investigating Japanese media structures as I am.

(The pleasantness of all us White/European foreigners experiences here are mainly due to abusing the positive externalities of Japanese culture as free riders, without having to pay back our social duties, but that's another story. There's a reason that the Pakistanis living in Japan don't write blogs about how awesome everything is.)

I spent the first several years of my Japanese studies and experiences essentially taking the position that Japan was a perfect alternative to the American system. Everything seemed to work a lot better. The more and more I looked behind rocks, however, there were a lot of things I saw that I feel like I cannot consciously support or just ideologically dismiss as being "cultural differences." I don't think lying to people is good in either culture, and as much the Extremist Cultural Relativists want to redefine "lying," there are plenty of books about "yarase" and "media hoaxes" by Japanese authors. Doshisha's School of Journalism probably provides the greatest critics of Japanese media. I take a lot of heat for essentially parroting these 100% domestic Japanese arguments.

I'm happy to hear alternative evidence, but I get really stressed out and unhappy with these fierce attempts to destroy me instead of providing counterevidence. If you all want to go out and research if "Densha Otoko" is real, or find polls about Japanese feelings towards media hoaxes, I'd love to hear the results. But otherwise, the counterevidence provided is usually just big phrases to question my perspective instead of detailed information about the issue at hand.

a positive adjective about japan nearly passed uncensored on this website ...

This is a badly-played hand. If you want readers to consider that I'm wrong, you should try to set yourself up as a neutral source and then start attacking the arguments little by little. Even when Momus is right, I have a hard time believing him, since he tells me I'm wrong whatever I write.

I tend to let things pass if I agree with you. For instance, I was in broad agreement with the swimming pools post, so I let it go. But I also find you more interesting when you're wrong. It's actually very unusual to find someone who's both intelligent and so very culturally insensitive. I think I'm harsh in my criticisms here because I think of you as someone essentially like me in your cultural and political perspective, and certainly amenable to the same cultural logic that I am, which is largely a left wing one. The difference is that you have some mysterious agenda which transgresses against some of the central rules of political etiquette. For instance, you clearly don't accept this ideal, spelled out by my friend Pat Kane in his excellent book "The Play Ethic":

"to be aware of diversity not as an act of tolerance but as an imaginative empathy that puts you in the shoes of the other, respecting their games and the integrity of their rules".

Then again, I suppose if we see the Japanese as a very disgruntled people, you might be channelling their repressed dissatisfaction with their own system. This is in fact the justification you present above. In fact it's the same argument I made the other day for my criticism of Israel (in my blog entry "Israelization") — that everyone I cited criticizing Israel was in fact Israeli and Jewish. The difference, I think, is that Israel is a nation in real crisis, and Japan isn't. When I read the blogs of people like Jean Snow and Yuki, which are positive about Japan, I don't get a strong sense of an elephant in the room being conspicuously ignored, the elephant of conspiracy or decline or authoritarianism or lying or whatever it is. Whereas simply to watch an innocuous video by Yael Bartana of Israelis enjoying off-road rough-riding does conjur up the Palestinian situation as a huge and reproachful "elephant in the room".

I would be interested in more autobiographical stuff about the turning point between your over-estimation of Japan and your under-estimation of it. Because, from reading the gaijin comments at Japan Today's site, I notice that it's a very, very common trajectory for ex-pats in Japan, especially American ones. I certainly haven't hit it yet, and I'm sure Jean Snow won't hit it either, possibly ever. What's more, the Japanese themselves never seem to fall out of love with Japan. Although a small minority of those who study and live abroad do get reluctant to return to Japan, most expat Japanese are extremely nostalgic for schlocky Japanese TV like "Densha Otoko", food, bathing in sentos, wearing kimonos, matsuri and obon, etc. I haven't yet heard any Japanese saying something like "I'll go back to Japan when they stop lying to us about stuff on TV".

Marxy said: "I take a lot of heat for essentially parroting these 100% domestic Japanese arguments."

But Marxy, your championing of these more critical Japanese viewpoints is ruining the Chrysanthemum wonderland of blissful ignorance!

Your critics would do well to check out magazines like Chuo Koron, Fujin Koron (www.chuko.co.jp), Ronza (www3.asahi.com/opendoors/zasshi/ronza), Da Capo (dacapo.magazine.co.jp), Sekai (www.iwanami.co.jp/sekai), Voice (www.php.co.jp/magazine/voice), Tsukuru (www.tsukuru.co.jp), and Kinyobi (www.kinyobi.co.jp); some of which have been mentioned on this site already, and all of which are published in Japanese, in Japan, by and for Japanese people (for those who don't read Japanese, I would suggest the Foreign Press Center's regular summaries of Japanese magazine articles in English: www.fpcj.jp/e/mres/viewsfromjapan). A perusal of these magazines should be enough to demonstrate that there really is serious criticism of Japan by the Japanese themselves.

This criticism, however, is marginalized in that it is seen to been the domain of specialists (for this reason I didn't list academic journals, as they are far outside of the popular consciousness), who often refrain from dissecting the most "pop" dimensions of culture with the same rigor they apply to other aspects of society (which I think gives this blog it's unique niche).

Could this indicate a more hierarchical approach to culture than proponents of Superflatness would have us believe?

Anyway, there is certainly plenty of room for debate about the topics Marxy brings up, but let's make it substantive and informed, OK? Or at least funny...

Momus, just because someone likes onsen and hanami doesn't mean they have no criticisms of society, come on! Even Japanese anarchists wore kimono.

As for Japanese ex-pats, they constitute a very elite group, and we should be careful not to assume that their feelings about their country of origin necessarily reflect those of their compatriots in other socio-economic positions.

But if we are taking them as an example, then it might bear mentioning that many female Japanese professionals prefer to work abroad (or for foreign employers in Japan) to escape the gender dynamic of the Japanese business world.

"to be aware of diversity not as an act of tolerance but as an imaginative empathy that puts you in the shoes of the other, respecting their games and the integrity of their rules".

I spent a good part of my intial studies with this perspective - working at a Japanese company, studying mainly through a Cultural Anthropological angle. When I worked for the super elite Kodansha, I thought, wow, the Japanese business life is so glamorous! Huge expensive accounts! Hostess bars! Not getting to the office until 2 pm (for magazine editors)! I was very impressed.

Then I worked at a fledgling IT company trying to act like a traditional office and saw/lived a much less ritzy life - getting up at 6 am to catch the crowded commuter train, spending 45 mins each way packed like a sardine, being scolded for getting to work 5 mins late, cleaning the senpai's desks because I'm the new guy, milling around until 9 just because no one leaves when work actually ends, going out drinking with the same people every night at the same bar and then having to have to pay for it yourself (!), getting home at 12:30 drunk and tired and having to wake up and do the same thing again...

Combine that with my research on Ape, in which I suffered my first shock that something I thought was really creative and interesting - Japanese fashion - ran on all these dark forces of dirty money, media collusion, and social pressure. I've been way more jaded than I am now, but from that point, I didn't see things as being 100% perfect.

I've also moved from a pure Interpretative anthropological approach to a more economic-based sociological one. From everything I've seen and read and learned, I think there is a strong case for many distinctive parts of Japanese culture being attributable to economic organization, and once you start thinking that "culture" is not a free-standing, traditional code but a result of decisions made in the interest of political and economic leaders, it loses the "sacredness" in need of blind respect. It's not that I disrespect Japanese culture because it's "abnormal" as much as I think all cultures are equally suspect. Now if I did more about American culture, this would be more apparent, but I tend to focus on my topic at hand, leading to an appearance of a strong bias against Japan.

When I read the blogs of people like Jean Snow and Yuki, which are positive about Japan, I don't get a strong sense of an elephant in the room being conspicuously ignored, the elephant of conspiracy or decline or authoritarianism or lying or whatever it is.

I think that's an unfair statement, seeing that their sites are almost completely not political. That's like saying, I read "Cha Cha Charming" and no one seems to think the war in Iraq was bad! The elephant, however small it is now, is growing. After finishing a class this semester about the Japanese economy, there are a lot of reasons why the elephant could keep growing every year. For essentially urban middle-class kids like Yuki and Jean, it will take awhile for them to notice, but for the rural, working-class non-bloggers, things may not be approaching revolution, but they aren't all crepes and Roppongi Hills.

...and now a word from our sponsors: Today's program, "Momus: Japanese Playaz and Ethics" was made possible in part by a generous grant from the Yamaguchi-gumi.

I've also moved from a pure Interpretative anthropological approach to a more economic-based sociological one.

I think this is where the reductiveness comes in. I'm not quite sure what "economic-based sociology" is, because economics is all about money whereas sociology is all about culture. By this device you seem to use money to dissolve cultural specificity. Money is a universal thing, and you feel that using money as your main lever into talking about Japanese society, you can somehow step outside of cultural understandings, and see them as secondary. If you portray cultural arrangements as determined by financial ones, you can avoid the basic "respect for the other" outlined in Pat Kane's statement. But is it really so easy to disentangle money and society, and say that society is organised purely on financial grounds, and that therefore finanacial arguments are enough to warrant calling for social change?

Also, I think your bad experience with McJob-type situations in Japan is simply a condemnation of McJobs anywhere. Surely it says nothing more than "It's shitty to be low on the pecking order in any country in the world, and to have a McJob."

if hypercapitalism become postcapitalism = japan (more than any other place), then david is very MUCH on the right track here w/his economic-based sociology.

I'm not quite sure what "economic-based sociology" is, because economics is all about money whereas sociology is all about culture

See, I think you've been away from college for too long, because there are now fields like "Economic Sociology" and "Organizational Behavior" and "Industrial Organization" that are all about how firms make decisions and behave, and ultimately in the case of my research, make what we consumers perceive as "popular culture." Economics is not just about finance and money, it's about broader issues of social welfare, power, and total resource allocation. I am very sympathetic to Cultural Anthropolgy, but I feel that the research is sometimes too "soft" and refuses to consider structural limitations on human actors.

I do think there are cultural traditions active in Japanese behavior (for example, the orthopraxy of Eastern religions), but I find the main reason we have to "respect" other cultures is the implication that these cultures were popularly/democratically created on a grass-roots level. I don't particularly think that's the case with Japan, and I wonder why it is that I have to respect the cultural aspects of development-state economic systems that were put together in the post-War period to create quick GDP growth. Having the husband be away at the office all day at least worked for its intended goal, but the idea that this is an ancient Japanese tradition and cannot be changed just as easily to fit the times is just silly.

Also, I think your bad experience with McJob-type situations in Japan is simply a condemnation of McJobs anywhere

This was a pretty high-level white-collar job that generally resembles all other white-collar jobs in Japan. I would be careful not to dismiss it so easily. If there's one thing I do respect about Japan is that the average Japanese person has a pretty difficult life, but still gets up and does it every day. I wonder though whether the maturity of Japan's economy and the end of the effectiveness of the old system could not lead to a better economic structure that encourage more "Slow Life," European values.

I don't mean to disrupt the flow of conversation here, but I just wanted to add that, happily, I may have spoken too soon in my previous post about magazines not critiquing pop culture...

Gendai Shiso and its sister publication Yurika seem to do it all: high, middle, and low brow. They've had features on Derrida, Virilio, Hardt & Negri, the freeter phenomenon, the effort to "Save the Shimokitazawa," post-noise, pro-wrestling, gag manga, and Winnie the Pooh!

http://www.seidosha.co.jp/index.html

I guess stuff like this might be closer to an academic journal than a popular magazine, but I'm pretty sure I've seen Gendai Shiso at non-specialist bookstores. I wonder what kind of circulation these magazines have? Who is reading this (very cool) stuff?

Marxy, one thing that makes you sound "naive" or "evangelistic" at times is when you criticise Japanese artists by saying things like "they are not working outside of the system!" or "they should be subverting the mainstream!" as if a new Beatles should appear every lunar year. For a person with your academic knowledge, it seems like the punk rocker is still very alive in you. Then you go on and praise Shina Ringo for being "subversive of the J-pop system". I enjoy listening to her music but it doesn't sound "subversive" to my ears, unless we're from two different planets and have very different concepts about what being "subversive" is.

Poor Marxy must feel rather besieged, but I think this has turned into a very interesting conversation. I certainly don't mean this in a hostile way, but I think this is a key point:

I find the main reason we have to "respect" other cultures is the implication that these cultures were popularly/democratically created on a grass-roots level.

I'm sure you'd agree that "history is written by the winners" etc etc. Most of the culture which survives and comes to define a nation like Japan is the culture of the winners, the dominant classes. Of course academics have tried to balance that with studies of popular culture, but it's important to allow the products of the powerful (the contents of the Nezu Museum, for instance) to count as the common culture of the Japanese. I think this is where Alex Kerr's analysis goes wrong: he attempts to preserve ancient Japanese culture (aristocratic stuff like tea houses) as the "legitimate" culture of Japan, and say that postmodern things like the Mori Roppongi Hills building are illegitimate. But surely Mori is really no different from the samurai of yore? And surely the idea of the "purity" of ancient culture and the "impurity" of modern culture is a rather suspicious one anyway? And surely one of Japan's great achievements is to have constructed a version of postmodernity which is recognizably "Japanese". Of course it wasn't constructed from the grassroots up (although Japan does rather well with grassroots cultural construction, I think, thanks to the wide range of small businesses and small cultural producers which co-exist well with the megalithic companies), but no viable culture can exist without an alliance between "top down" and "bottom up": between, in other words, the powerless and the powerful.

guest: thanks for those references. BTW in Shimokitazawa the other weekend there was some sort of rally, I stopped to try and get more information but unfortunately no one who was working the tables could actually tell me 1) what the problem was, 2) what they wanted to do about it. Perhaps the realized I'm dis-enfranchised so my support wouldnt make any difference anyways.

alin: you make some interesting points but keep trying to score so you come off like momus when he gets agressive.

momus: I like reading your comments when you are being more thoughtful, adressing whats being discussed rather than just slamming Marxy or bringing out red herrings like President Bush & Enron. In regards to the "elephant in the room" however, I must disagree. I work at a large Japanese financial company and quite often there really is a palletable sense that people are intentionally NOT adressing the real issues that everyone knows about. Your analogy was quite apt however becuase it really is like the feeling that something large and smelly is in the same room but no one can quite bring themselves to be the first one to say how bad it smells. There are alot of potential explanations for this, however in informal situations, mutterings of "gray rough skin" can be heard.

marxy: thanks for remembering! that converstaion at the izakaiya was fun, lets do it again some time.

I didn't quite finish that thought, two more points:

* Without this alliance between the weak and strong, national culture is likely to become a picture postcard sideshow for the tourists, while international liberal capital works to make the nation like any other.

* It's this alliance that's consistently underestimated by Alex Kerr and Neomarxisme, which both seem to advocate economic "liberalisation" of Japan, and seek to insert their own critiques of Japan wedgelike between the powerful and the powerless. But in both cases, the critique appeals not to the Japanese themselves—who know very well that their continuing autonomy depends on cohesion rather than resentful splitting and splintering between the powerful and powerless—but to a small number of disillusioned ex-patriots who have, for various reasons, built up a passive aggression towards Japan, fuelled by their disappointment and their feeling that they will never be entirely accepted there.

cheap shot: yellow card on Momus

Is it a cheap shot? I think the difference between "It's wonderful and I will belong here" and "It's wonderful and I will never belong here" is an important one. The "belong" stance leads inevitably to disappointment, the "never belong" stance doesn't.

I think, thanks to the wide range of small businesses and small cultural producers which co-exist well with the megalithic companies), but no viable culture can exist without an alliance between "top down" and "bottom up": between, in other words, the powerless and the powerful.

I think this was well-said, and it sure makes things more difficult. I have an American kneejerk reaction against over-centralization, authoritarianism, monopolies, elitism, and upper-class domination of culture, but I also have developed an antagonism to the same things based on looking at the economic/social analysis of those phenomenon. Big business monopolies aren't good for consumers - whether we analyze from Marxian or Neo-classical Economic perspectives. I will admit that elitism and wide acceptance of good taste tend to go hand-in-hand (at least in the case of Japan), but I'm not sure that I'm ready to fully embrace elitism and non-elected bureaucratic control as the greatest possible political system. I think it's fine to be pro-Japanese governance, but I think you should be openly pro-authoritarian about it and not pretend like Japan's political system is something that's it's not.

I've always been pretty bored with "traditional" Japan a la Alex Kerr, but recently I see pictures of Europe on TV and wish that there were more places in Japan like Kyoto or Hida-Takayama. I don't necessarily dislike modern Japan, but I hate Mori's version of it. Roppongi Hills is the Death Star.

thanks to the wide range of small businesses and small cultural producers which co-exist well with the megalithic companies

A word about this: Japan's small businesses are a huge drag on Japan's economy and will be essentially the first ones to go when things get tighter. They're not innovative producers (which is what we usually mean by "good small businesses"), but mainly inefficient retail outlets. It's a fake kind of "small business" culture because they all overdepend financially and psychologically on huge distribution and storage companies, passing along the expenses to the consumer.

Without this alliance between the weak and strong, national culture is likely to become a picture postcard sideshow for the tourists, while international liberal capital works to make the nation like any other.

I do worry that international capital homogenizes the world for its own economic stability, but it's a viral infection that cannot be easily stopped. As Japan sits on its hand and does nothing to remedy its woes on its own terms, the allure of M&A and global capital seems in and enriches those who drink from its cup. Western ideas like feminism have already seeped in and are wrecking marriages, families, and birth rates - as society still expects men to be at work all the time and the "new" woman does not feel that she needs to be the patient, all-enduring, lonely wife that the Japanese system expects. So, it's not that I want Japan to 100% take in these Western, international liberal capitalist ideas for its own good, but this half-assed "let's not change the system to match reality and hope everything gets fixed on its own" is pretty much a dead-end. I'd rather Japan not go in its current Ishihara Shintaro-inspired directions, but it should do something to in response to the fact that all of the experts - both foreign and Japanese - are in agreement that the 1950s development state system is broken.

But in both cases, the critique appeals not to the Japanese themselves—who know very well that their continuing autonomy depends on cohesion rather than resentful splitting and splintering between the powerful and powerless

They don't know this. The majority of people in Japan don't particularly care. You have to remember that Japan's most educated citizens have no political leanings. Sure this sounds vaguely like what Japan is like, but where are you seeing a specific verbalization of it? It's also totally ahistorical, seeing that a working class movement was very strong up until the early 1970s.

fuelled by their disappointment and their feeling that they will never be entirely accepted there.

I don't know. I can pretty comfortably say that I don't really care about "not being accepted" or "never being able to be Japanese." The last thing I want is to be bogged down as a member of a nation-state. I very much like that I can navigate Japanese culture as a non-Japanese. Being from the American South, I've never really associated myself with where I live, and I'm used to the idea that everyone else doesn't quite understand me. Am I more accepted in Tokyo, Japan or Pensacola, Florida? Probably the former.

Not entirely sure what you mean by "belong" Momus. I certainly belong here as I understand it. I've bought a house, I like my job, my friends, my family and I plan on getting permanant residence. I dont pretend this is a magical fairy land where bunnies and teddy bears shoot love beams from their eyes though. Of course there are sourpus expats in Japan just like anywhere. I knew plenty of em in New York as well. I for one want the economy and society here to thrive not fail, but like Marxy I see lots of cracks in the bridges as it were.

Western ideas like feminism

this is shockingly lame. I'm wordless .... maybe later ... somebody help ...

have already seeped in and are wrecking marriages, families, and birth rates

It's starting to make sense. This guy's actually been talking about america all the time

... a Japanese girl .... went to North Dakota to search for the money, and died in the cold.

Marxy, whether the story is true or not, bringing it up at that point is tactless, unrelated to what you were set to discuss and plain vicious. (I wonder if you'll get my point because it's easy to discard) . if you really had to you could have just said .. a girl.. Practically in two paragraphs you're saying japanese people are stupid home AND away. (this is a very easy one to defend yourself against; At the same time though, however mild, harmless and maybe objectively true your comment might have been, and however much i may be exagerating my point here, this one is a seriously nasty pattern)

A Japanese writer is asking the exact same questions

that's why i described your approach as 'strategic' among other things. Your monologue wasn't inspired or even triggered by this particular writer but i can understand your delight in finding a voice in the opposite camp that somewhat echoed what you were thinking already and would have said anyway.

this is shockingly lame. I'm wordless .... maybe later ... somebody help ...

Oh, I'm so glad you came back to the conversation.

do you honestly believe some of the things you end up saying, or you are actually aware sometimes when you go too far off the track? this reminds me of this university teacher who, having mastered his foucault &co, was telling a large class more than half filled with students from various asian countries, a large part of that from japan, that the concept of higiene was only invented in the 19th, or somewhere around there, century. (by the french). this left more than half the class bamboozled coz the concept of higiene and cleanliness has been one, if not the, key concept in japanese culture ever since amaterasu gave birth to the first humanoid emperor.

While you couldn't say the same about the 'feminism' that's 'wrecking marriages and families' ... man, do i have to pull all my guns, put on an armour and build a fortress of an arguement to keep up the fight; just think about it , look at things around you a bit, stop reading that many social theory books, eat more soba (it lowers the blood pressure in the cerebral area) and i think you 'llknow what i mean

peace

wow, this is a lot of bickering...

Regarding small business and big businesses: out here in the heartland of japan, small businesses are not faring so well. It looks more and more like a japanese middle america, and those small businesses that still exist are gradually becoming run down and irrelevant as the city center and the shopping centers become cleaner and more corporate.
The small businesses all open and close in the course of six months, except for what is becoming increasingly the rule: businesses run as a non-profitable hobby. The small/big alliance that momus refers to is at least a mystery out here... hakodate (where I think he did his residence thing) is not really so different.

In terms of small businesses making good, I see the sort of corrupt multi-faceted bape stuff marxy mentions above and wealth-destroying pasttime shops as the standard here and up in the capitol.

alin, are you actually aware of any specifics of japanese society that you haven't read in books? if you can't see that western feminism entering japan is a relatively recent and problematic development, then I wonder if you've ever consumed a single bit of the japanese culture not specifically intended for export.

and while I'm posting too much... momus, you and I (and marxy?) are all quite the same as those cultural elites who leave their country because of distaste for the internal situation, political cultural or otherwise.
Do you mean to say that our opinions about our own countries are not valuable? That the emigrating class of elites doesn't have important insights about the real plight of a country?

Look, Marxy's choice of words might have been provocative, but he has a completely valid point: Its a matter of divison of labor.

There are tasks to be done in a household, a lot of hard, boring work. In the past, women have done this work, often thanklessly and under horrendous duress, removed from the wage labor system. Advanced capitalism breaks down that social structure, and we needn't shed any tears for the patriachy.

However, the effect of women being drawn into the wage labor market, and men remaining there, is that then no one does work around the house, and everyone ends up lonely and eating fast food.

Why doesn't housework get divided more evenly? Why don't men stay home? I'm guessing prejudices about "women's work" have a lot to do with it, but maybe it's just economic "necessity."

Regardless, the result is that families are spending more and more time apart, engaged in the wage labor system, and this is a damn shame. In a rich, post-industrial country like Japan, it should be possible for families to spend more time together and less time at work. And to surrender Japanese cuisine to likes of the conbini bento and KFC is surely a tragedy!

alin, are you actually aware of any specifics of japanese society that you haven't read in books?

yes.

western feminism entering japan

ok. that's what it is. maybe we should coin the term 洋フェミ the japanese media will probably be quite receptive to it. 洋食、洋室、洋服　

as a non-westerner (whatever that may mean) i think it's fair to have an issue seeing long, complex, often painful, locally developed and locally specific processes miss-interpreted and miss-labeled by people who pathologically feel above the situation.

western feminism

there are obviously changes happening in japan. if you choose to call is feminism, fine. the term is quite a bit too loaded and inflated to the point of being meaningless if not patronising. i mean the west is (since we're talking of pos-t's) in a post-feminist state so then eurika japan has finally caught up and reached the state that westerners have supposedly evolved out of. In effect you're again creating this primitive beast onto which you're projecting your own neuroses and social anxieties.

if you had to use that nasty term, there'd be a number of feminisms developed and developing in japan on quite different lines and with more social impact that the supposed imported, finally caught up on western feminism.

A correction: Voice's editorial policy tends to the right. I was mistaken about this earlier. They've featured articles penned by the chairman of the notorious Society for History Textbook Reform, and at least one opinion piece calling for a permanent(!) SDF prescence in Iraq. Ah well, know your enemy...

What interested me in the magazine initially was an article opposing American-style economic liberalization. I suppose this says something about diversity of concerns and factionalism on the right, in the same way that Yasukuni and postal privatization appeal to different audiences, sometimes with little or no overlap.