but since to be is to buy, and buyers are required, at least the obasans are helping us out by buying. the sheppard must have sheep to sheer and someones gotta keep the nation from deflation.

If the goal is patriotic purchasing, shouldn't they be more interested in Japanese products?

Well, I think it's healthy that Japan even admits it has Asian neighbours for the same reason it's healthy that you even admit you have a girlfriend!

I was watching Hachigatsu no Christmas the other day, since part of it was filmed in the town I live in. It's an adaptation of a Korean movie, so I figured someone would die before it was over. Sure enough.

What is it with Koreans and love causing them to die?

I'm not sure how this is reported in the Japanese media, but I'd always thought there was more to the kanryu boom than Yon-sama. Korean cinema, for one, barely even registered on the radar in Japan five years ago - now loads of people are flocking to see the likes of Windstruck (released here as 私の彼女を紹介します) and A Moment to Remember (私の頭の中の消しゴム - catchy, ne?). And not just obaasan - my last girlfriend (23) and her friends went nuts for this shit, in much the same way they dug equally maudlin homegrown offerings like 今、会いに行きます and 世界の中心で、愛を叫ぶ. Could there be a - shock! - two-pronged kanryu onslaught going on?

Korean cinema is doing well all over the world, and I wonder how much the Japanese media would have started to label this whole thing a trend had it just been the films. I remember in 1998 how huge Wong Kar-Wai was, but I don't seem to recall it being a "Hong Kong boom." The Yon-sama part is the lynchpin, but you may be right that we shouldn't just limited it to that.

because cantopop never really got over the late 90s jpop boom. or the 80s where almost whole albums would have their songs lifted from the japanese charts.

these days i think even jpop covers would be more interesting that the tripe local producers are making. bleah, more ballads.

(however, if you want to hear a jpop song being murdered, try isabella leung's cover of aiko kitahara's 'da da da' http://mikemike.com/hkpop/html/isabella.html)

I don't know much about Cantopop, but I assume that that similarly incestual industry structure is responsible for the blandness of it all. The dominant firms in Japan would love to return Japanese culture to Cantopop caliber, but the rock 'n roll cat is out of the bag.

The dominant firms in Japan would love to return Japanese culture to Cantopop caliber, but the rock 'n roll cat is out of the bag.

Yes! And look where it's got us!

>

oh man now you got your girlfriend talking like you...

"inherently regressive"

We often discuss how much aggregate fun we've had on our dates over time.

On Sunday the BBC's investigative show Panorama put on a thing called Blair v. Blair, in which they dramatised the private life of Tony and Cherie Blair, making them say lines from their speeches, and showing their different stances on law and human rights issues. Needless to say it was the most wooden and clunky "play" ever; nobody talks in private like they do in public.
But I couldn't help imagining what what happen if you did a "Marxy v. Marxy" script the same way.

Tony Marxy and his wife Cherie are sitting in a cafe in Aoyama.

Tony Marxy: Everything's just been downhill ever since "Heart Shaped Box" came on.

Cherie Marxy: (Slightly sarcastic) Oh, how we miss the glorious 90s!

Tony Marxy: (Looks around at decorators painting the walls) Judging on past behavior, there is no reason to believe that crucial renovations will be swift and forceful.

Cherie Marxy: Maybe the Internet will rot the foundations of the current structure, but until then, Japan is still a place - in all seriousness - where the media is not allowed to say bad things about boy bands.

Tony Marxy: Cafe Espace is really into Cafe Espace at the moment - partly because they want to be, partly because they have to be.

Cherie Marxy: (Not really listening) Yes, the heart behind this one-time energetic community has withered away, and we can now only expect the castles to fall one by one.

Tony Marxy: (Waiter arrives, wearing Bape shirt) This place is still all DJs and simian t-shirts.

Cherie Marxy: Macciato vanilla please.

Tony Marxy: Orange jusu. I mean, if famous people haven't worn a t-shirt, how could it possibly withstand the social pressure of contemporary society?

Cherie Marxy: (Is leafing through a copy of Can Cam) Mmmm... Do you like these curtains?

Tony Marxy: If the Japanese liked their mass media to lie to them, I'm sure they'd throw roses at TV producers pretty much like the ones on those curtains.
Cherie rummages in her Louis Vuitton bag to answer her keitai, which is ringing.

Cherie Marxy: Yes? Really? Oh no! (To Tony Marxy) Bad news, Tony. That was the yakuza and I'm afraid they're saying it's... TERMIAL!

Tony Marxy: What is?

Cherie Marxy: Your musical career in Japan, Tony.

Tony Marxy: I would guess though that jimushos don't really care either way about my musical career, because most of their money is made from things other than music.

Cherie Marxy: I know, dear, but it's not all about money. I'm afraid you've hurt their feelings.

Tony Marxy: Oh well, big deal, the whole idea of selling music is just narcissistic nostalgia from the only generation that remembers how to properly participate in the consumption process.

That's why we need girlfriends/boyfriends - to get away from ourselves.

shameless, nick!

For someone who claims to be positive, Momus sure does his fair share of flame-baiting. Sinking to new lows with each post.

Marxy on the other hand wants us all to be oedipal.
In Japan, one of the least oedipal places on the planet he has found his nemesis (the genesis of Neomarxisme!?). His own oedipism clouds what might otherwise have been quite accurate insights; His voice, contaminated by the oedipal virus, becomes unconvincing to most but those who have suffered similar psycho-socio-cultural conditioning to his own.

Okay.

why does everyone hate orange range so much? They're a band for junior high kids and high school girls. Stand them next to any other band aimed at the same people, and they compare pretty well.

I can't help but get the impression that the hanryu boom is about self-congratulating multi-culturalism. How many times do you need to stress that "they" are just like "us" before you start to wonder why anyone was presuming they aren't?

oedipus is the anti-shinto!

Why did no one bother to tell me until now that it's pronounced "hanryu"? How embarassing...!

Well, that would make two of us who haven't got a fucking clue what we're on about. Woo-hoo!

I dunno about anti-oedipal here... I still hear the phrase "maza-kon" bandied about quite a bit.

oh marxy, we want people consuming services (licenced, locally subtitled DVDs pressed in Asia to keep costs down) not products you can drop on your toe. Right?

there's no good reason for it to be read HANryu. it's not a valid japanese reading of the 韓　character. It's like rolling your R's when pronouncing "bell grande".

or not knowing that "puchi" comes from petit

hey that's not fair you deleted confucius and left oedipus. they were meant to balance and play against each other.

who is that momus and why does he keep attacking marxys girlfriend? seems like a bit of a stalker

hey that's not fair you deleted confucius and left oedipus. they were meant to balance and play against each other.

Oops, that was actually an accident. I deleted a batch of junk mails yesterday and probably clicked on my message as well. Sorry about that.

The two kanji compund word "Hanryu" was originally coined by the Koreans, not by Japanese. "Han-kuk" is Korean for Korea. Then it appears the Japanese added their own pronounciation of the second kanji, calling it "ryu". So, "Hanryu" as "Korean wave" is just a clever way of naming a new trend.

Actually, recent Korean movies are great, much better than Japanese movies!

For sure, Korean movies are the best coming out of east asia at the moment (at least the top stuff like President's Last Bang, Old Boy, etc)

But the pop music and tv show explosion is surprising. Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, and Japan have all seriously jumped on the bandwagon.

I don't know anything about J-tv shows, but I can say HK, china, and taiwan already have these sappy "pure love" shows on TV so I'm not sure why they're so into the korean stuff now.

Now I'm told the word "hanryu" was actually coined by Chinese media around 1999-2000, as Korean dramas, pop music and movies started becoming popular there. Same kanji, same pronounciation (more or less, actually it is hán liú). Hanryu is also the Korean pronounciation of the same 2 kanji. Go figure.

that was actually an accident.

ah, and i even suspected you tried to reconstruct the narrative so it looks like you're being attacked by webtrolls again.

you know, the insight about hanryu being regressive etc, that's what they were talking on tv over a year ago and initialy if i remember well it was the elderly yonsama fans' husbands who brought it up and then the whole issue including what's being talked here ++ much more was discussed and overdiscussed and it's all kind of atarimae like to every japanese person yonsama fan or not this is pretty obvious stuff so had neomarxisme been a sort of japan fan site where people can tune in and cacth up on what's been going on it would be cool , yet to suport the claim of offering extra-penetrative insights and analyses it's a bit thin.

Yeah, but he's doing it in English.

yet to suport the claim of offering extra-penetrative insights and analyses it's a bit thin.

I'll take the "Extra-Penetrative" copy out of my ads if it makes you happy.

I still don't understand why you being right about every single thing and me being wrong about every single thing doesn't make you want to start your own blog, Alin! Think of all the extra-penetrative insights you could offer!

Alin and Momus should start a blog exclusively devoted to Marxy-bashing- oh wait, that's what THIS blog is!

I dont need any extra penetration

yes, thought you'd say this sooner or later. don't think i could handle a quarter of the stuff you've got to deal with. (especially since my esl is probably not of the cute type.) i feel i'd be crushed under sarcasm and cynicism.
i havn't actually said you were 'wrong' and i was right about one single thing. i have often said your arguements are narrow for some reason or other , yet admittedly have generally been lazy and sloppy to follow right through with complementary arguements, ; mea culpa.

also as i've mentioned earlier there is enough buddy-ism and solidarity here to make up for and cancel any outside differing opinions allowing the long march to move on. so, momus and get lumped together by default just because we're not neo-marxysts, in actual fact we hold and express rather different views and opinions from each other and there's zero buddy-ism to join forces against neo-marxy. same goes for another handful who regularly don't agree with the programe. //there isn't and there won't be an anti-marxyst conspiracy//

buddy-ism and solidarity here

momus and [I?] get lumped together by default
===================
Doctor, heal thyself.

well here's the structure of neoM as i see it: marxy emanates thoughts, sometimes keenly observant, often repetitive (same spiel different variables: visually offensive telefone wires on the typical street, unko-gumo in asakusa, a lame j-pop band, all interchangeable)

an inner circle, correct me or ignore me if i'm wrong, of regulars who i suspect share marxy's ethno-socio-cultural background, while disagreeing with him on minor points, keeping a relative level of dynamism, ultimately agree with what's been said, strenghtening what to me ammounts to a one way ideological assault - patronising, ethnocentric, missionary-like and uncompromising. there are points where you feel it might have softened, then next thing it's back (as if with a vengeance i often thought to myself).
Other than this there's a handful of people with more fundementally different views who pop their head in only to have it chopped shortly.

But all this i guess is perfectily fine since neomarxisme itself represents a very small ethnic minority and diversity is good and should be preserved. (at times i had the naive feeling that neomarxisme itself can be a ground for diversity)

alin: there is a baseline set of requirements for participating in online forums which unfortunately often results in a certain homogenaeity (dont know if I spelled that right). In specialized forums like this one, the "sameness" becomes more accute. We can pretty much expect that anyone participating actively here has completed a certain level of post secondary education, has enough income to own a computer and pay for the relative luxury of Internet access as well as having or having found the means to repeatedly travel to or live in Japan (not a cheap thing).

As for factors beyond socio-economic backgrounds, the relatively narrow focus of this website pretty much limits the nature of the debate. Alot of it boils down to do you or do you not support the idea that "reform" would be "a good thing" for Japan (of course "Japan" is in this case an abstract concept encompasing the citizens, workers, industries, etc).

Given all that, my one personal dissapointment is that Momus and you tend to be the only opposing voices and both of you resort to personal attacks more often than persuasive rebuttal.

Out of curiosity, please remind me if you live here or not, if so where and for how long? I find the answers to these questions often help me better understand the opinions of the regulars here. Knowing a bit about the backgrounds of Marxy, Momus, R & Monroe has certainly helped me to understand why they say the things they do.

I think of my blog as a house: I welcome anyone to come over and chat with me over various topics and share diverse opinions. I welcome dissent and disagreement as long as its civil and non-insulting. If you came over for dinner and started shouting me down as "racist" or "ethnocentric" or "unimpressive," I'd probably not have you back for pot roast. I'd rather not block users or censor posts, so I just have to put up with some bad dinner guests. But maybe in your eyes, I'm a demon house that needs to be demolished and I don't deserve such decorum.

The thing I've noticed about some of these Korean dramas (since I've seen a few now on tv) is that, whilst English language productions frequently will be broadcast bilingually, the ones I've seen offer no Korean dialogue option. I might just have the wrong sample, but it would seem to me that Korean-speaking residents might welcome the chance to hear Hangul rather than crap voiceovers.

That said, if there is a deflection of news interest away from Japanese young people, I think that's potentially a healthy thing in the long-term. After all, there's no reason why oyaji, mothers and similar can't have their own subcultures and alternative lifestyles. I don't think they're at fault here. It's these pesky young folk who aren't doing the business...

The Korean boom, in its soap form, is quite limited, but I think having any mainstream recognition of Korean culture, moreover substantial adulation even if it is just one small element, is one hell of a step forward. Let's see where it leads in ten years from now, rather than ten months.

(wrote this then forgot to click post then lost the connection to the perth western australia, where i am now, datacloud . some 48 hours so it's a bit late and off._____)

ok chris. sorry, can't supress the feeling that i'm talking to the janitor of neomarxisme. and i'm really not sure marxy himself is behind this or not yet you make it sound like he is. again, sorry, the image of a jimusho comes to mind.

support the idea that "reform" would be "a good thing" for Japan

i'm generally against the idea of reforming other people from outside, or 'saving' them, and there is little evidence to the contrary here. (it could be argued that one would like to change japan from within but , alas, one is not allowed within)

I care about the subject, that's why i'm here, yet i don't agree with the agenda. Moreover even if I did agree with the agenda and personaly wanted to see it implemented i would still have reservations because i don't believe the way it's being concieved here it would actually bring forth any results. (japan has changed but it was not perry or mcarthur etc who have changed japan, nor has it changed quite in the direction those guys would have liked it to)

reform of some sort is hapening in japan all the time but the outside reformist, is too busy pointing out the self-gratifyingly obvious.

i have roughly lived in: romania 16y, germany 2y, sweden 1y, uk 2y, japan 3y, australia 12y and other little bits in between but that's a bit relative since it's not only the place you're in but the people you hang out with stuff you eat and read etc.
/ now living in ginza 8chome
/ havn't quite gotten to the end of my tertiary education
/ some recentish stuff tho it's been unkept for about a year: www.hacofune.com

isn't the 'personal attacks' bit a bit hystrionic. i have felt marxy was so off the mark to actually say 'marxy has probably never left america and is actually talking about america' but was that a personal attack? he was thinking of japan as if it was america.

marxy: a house that's nice. a bastion sometimes. you didn't claim your blog to be super-penetrative or whatever that was but you did claim some sort of mission statement that if you don't do it nobody else is. that's the point where your blog becomes problematic; more than the average whingeing about japan blog. you must be aware of this.

I'd love to see you have a half an hour a day spot on (japanese) tv , maybe nhk, and have there your opinions challenged by all sorts of people qualified to do so. because they are seriously challangeable from just about every angle.

i think it's basically that me and momus, funny i have to ally myself again with momus by default, because we find your starting point problematic, even to the point of sometimes dismissing the specifics of what you're saying, argue against the actual position you're taking (and only while you're taking that position,, if you browse back, which i'm sure you do, you'll surely find that it's only a certain attitude that invites this kind of response).

you never get any nasties when you admit some sort of vulnerability or fail-ability on your own side.
----
Sarmoung's entries are always clear and poignant and probably the least biased here. just clicked the link to the blog and it looks interesting indeed, i shall check it out

alin, do you think that japanese people would agree that perry and macarthur didn't change japan? Because their history books sure wouldn't.
How is the strictly domestic perscription you advise any less an outsider directing the japanese how to behave than what marxy does?

Sarmoung, At least on BS2, the korean dramas are indeed bilingual hangul... but I mostly only notice korean jidaigeki.

Alin: Why you get clumped with Momus:

1) You're extremely patronizing in your rebuttals.
2) You're are outraged (outraged!) about what's being said.
3) You tend to believe all ideas on this blog are unfounded American misinterpretations instead of extrapolations of scholarship/Japanese opinions re-written in English.

I think that's potentially a healthy thing in the long-term. After all, there's no reason why oyaji, mothers and similar can't have their own subcultures and alternative lifestyles.

Sure, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with older people being consumers. To be honest, it brings a lot of intelligence and sophistication to pop culture overall. Up until recently, however, the lack of adult pop cultures shifted a lot of money to kids' pockets, which was a great stimulus to the Japan pop world. Now there's less money floating around anyway, and with more equal dispersion to consumers of different cohorts, Japan may end up with a pop culture less youth-focused and more like America. (Dreaded America!!!)

You're extremely patronizing in your rebuttals

Dude. Do you seriously not realize how patronizing you are most of the time?

Just take a look at this very post. It's rather tame by your standard but still manages to belittle:
1) Japanese culture in the 70s and 80s
2) Asian television markets
3) Cantopop
4) Japanese young people - your favorite target
5) older Japanese female viewers/conservative mothers - your second favorite

Of course, you're free to belittle whomever and whatever in your blog. Please though, do try to be self-aware enough to not call anyone else patronizing. You're the one who keep generalizing about Japanese youth/obasan/public's lesser (you think) intellectual lives.

BTW, I dislike Korean TV dramas, but to label the many Japanese women who love them narcissistic? Dude. Quite a number of them just find Korean hunks more attractive.

I think you're confusing "patronizing" with "snarky."

do you think that japanese people would agree that perry and macarthur didn't change japan?

it's absurd to speak of japanese people as one monolithic block since opinions have always been divided. as far as i understand it by and large japanese people's own study and interpretation of technology, science, sociology and whatever, mainly in europe, have changed japan perry didn't.

extrapolations of scholarship/Japanese opinions re-written in English.

extrapolations of scholarship/Japanese opinions re-written, edited and curated.

"extrapolations of scholarship/Japanese opinions re-written, edited and curated."

Would it be preferable if Marxy just translated Japanese academic articles that conform to his positions (Japanese social science journals are full of them, as are some of the more highbrow general readership monthlies), sans editing and curation (as if an act of translation could ever be performed without editing and curation)?

And to claim that Perry and MacArthur did not change Japan, well that's just poppycock. Did you see the "Yokohama Incident" back in the news recently? That should be a reminder that before the occupation a person could be killed by agents of the state simply for things they wrote, or mere rumors of leftist sympathies. Yes, SCAP censored publications (and betrayed the left in its own way), but the difference was still enough to prompt novelist Novelist Jun Takami to write: "Now I can write anything freely. ... I am free for the first time in my life!''

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200509300120.html

Universal suffrage, women's rights, legalization of opposition parties, land reform: MacArthur was Japan's most "enlightened" emperor ever, and many Japanese liberals and leftists still have a soft spot for the guy. Conservatives won't buy your argument about MacArthur having no effect either, because they love to blame all of Japan's current "problems" (like uppity women who won"t just stay home and churn out babies) on the Occupation.

a person could be killed by agents of the state simply for things they wrote, or mere rumors of leftist sympathies. Yes, SCAP censored publications (and betrayed the left in its own way

doesn't that sound like the mccarthy era as well.

japan, urban especially , did have plenty, as far as modernizations and stuff go, going in taisho before the occupation and before the rise of fascist nationalism

but my point here is rather that the C20 interventionalist approach (best exemplified by the US), whatever its merits and demerits might have been then is just not cool anymore, whichever way you look at it, and hasn't been for quite some time.