I was going to suggest that you mock up an advert featuring a bullying post-modern teddy bear in gumby style. もっと、スマイルモーマスへ or similar. You could post these around town in Daikanyama and similar.I then read that you're rather tied up with other activities, so perhaps not!

Marxy, sorry about that. I did feel a little worried about how you'd take that comment. You've been a very genial host over here on Neomarxism, and the discussion here has helped me to stimulate new thinking on these topics. Not less, I've been impressed that you've kept an even keel throughout. Even your post here has a very gentlemanly tone to it.

Given that Momus seemed to be fighting a losing battle lately in this blog, I thought I'd try to make things interesting again by introducing the Kitayama and Markus angle. But I fear it's ill timed, given how bogged down a lot of us are at this time of year.

Marxy: if you design a poster likeSarmoung suggested, I'll print it and put it up. I have an A2 sized printer and I'm not bogged down with any xmas sillyness or travel.

For the record, I don't consider myself a postmodernist. However as I've posted elsewhere in this blog, I sometimes enjoy reading postmodernist writings and I think some of the concepts are interesting and imaginative. So perhaps postmodernist sympathizer would be more accurate.

In the italicized text below I reply to your comment over at Click Opera. Since you post as an anonymous user over there I don't think you receive e-mail notification.

Marxy, I think I worded that in the wrong way. What I wanted to say is that I suspect that many of your statements on Japan may have an underlying assumption of agency on your part. I shouldn't have added that stuff about "rational, liberal post-industrial revolution European culture." because when I read it now I sound like I am pompously trying to pretend to be a sociologist, which I am not.

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of why some of your statements bother me. It's important to me because clearly you are knowledgeable about and have a certain amount of experience in Japan.

For example let's take the statement "Japan has an authoritarian government". I'm not sure I want to either affirm or completely deny it. In fact I don't really know what I want to do with it.

If we're going to discuss whether or not Japanese people want "free will", I think we first have to say what freedom is and what a will is. Different cultures have different conceptions of these things, which is the main point of the work of Kitayama and Markus.

I look forward to our future exchanges on these matters, either here or over at Neomarxism.

Sparkligbeatnik: Don't worry about the "post-Industrial" slander. I didn't take it too hard.

What's the main Kitayama/Markus work? I am intrigued.

Their most famous paper is a 1991 review article in the APS journal Psychological Review. It has something like 900 citations in google scholar. The link on Click Opera leads to Kitayama's page which has PDFs of most of their publications.

How can my position be called 'a losing battle' when Marxy's case against Japan is built on the assertion that there's a deep split between the Japanese people (likeable dupes) and Japanese institutions (sinister, authoritarian, criminal, conspiratorial) -- a split I see very little evidence of, and one he can only seem to 'prove' by telling us about books like 'A Public Betrayed'?

Momus: when did I call your argument a "losing battle"? It seems like something I would say, but not sure if I remember when exactly.

I will get some better evidence for my theory up on the site soon. I am reading a great book called Images of Japanese Society by Mouer and Sugimoto from the mid-80s who present the "conflict theory" of Japan as the "lesser tradition." So I do have company, they are just less loud.

In the POMO world, are there any absolutes? Are there any simple concepts, like something being "good" or even "preferable"? How about simple "true" or "false"? Can Marxy's statements/charges ever be seen or judged in that light? Or is everything contextual?

Apparently so. In this regard, Marxy's frustration with Momus' arguments and his style of arguing will simply continue. No? Can such debate continue then? It's like trying to argue Momus' personal preferances - Cornelius is better than the Clash. How can one argue that? I personally think he's crazy, but he is certainly not wrong...

It seems that absolutely nothing can be pinned down, you know?

Anyway, I think Momus is terribly exaggerating Marxy's stance in the above statements. (I think Robert at GlitchSlapTko has something to say about that as well...) Also, the messengers behind 'Public Betrayed' may be flawed but is the message flawed as well?

Marxy: it was sparkligbeatnic who used the phrase 'losing battle' to justify why he was 'beating up on you'.

Les: In the POMO world, are there any absolutes? Are there any simple concepts, like something being "good" or even "preferable"?

Very much so. But all such statements are situated, contingent, contextual. In other words, they come from somewhere, they have quote marks around them, they reflect cultures or vested interests. They're not neutral, universal, disinterested, objective or absolute. Such statements should be made humbly. It's right... for me. It's right... for them. As an x, I think it's wrong, but a y probably wouldn't share my view...

What worries me about Marxy's tone is that it almost seems to be a doctrine of original sin applied to Japanese culture. Every new thing that comes up is just another facet to a Big Picture. He's like a prosecution lawyer with a whole nation squeezed into the dock.

Momus: Perhaps I'm mistaken but you seemed to be embracing, or about to embrace Nihonjinron arguments. That would be a "losing battle" in my opinion. I brought up the Kitayama and Markus stuff because it's much more contemporary and more defensible than dated Nihonjinron theories. Many Japanese I know are embarrassed by some of those old "theories of Japaneseness". But the Kitayama and Markus stuff is much more plausible, not least because it seems to set out to clearly understand differences between cultures without making a value judgement on those cultures.

I like your general attitude that there are good things about Japanese society. Also I think there's something of worth in your theoretical understanding of Japan. A more accurate handling of the facts would be helpful. That recent statement about Shinto never being exported overseas didn't help.

If my assessment is correct, Marxy's senmon is Japanese studies - he seems to have a good grasp of the facts, history etc... and in addition, considerable fluency in the language. It's his emphasis and interpretation that bother me. What I'm trying to understand is why does he seem so convinced that nearly everything about the Japanese system is wrong?

Yeah, he's got the facts and I've got the interpretations, we could make a wonderful team if he'd just agree to come over to the World Japanizers team!

Actually when I first met Marxy -- in fact the only time I've met him -- it was at the New York HQ of Tokion magazine, the Christian Science Monitor of Japanization. So I naturally took him for one of my own, and I still believe he may return to the fold one day, especially if he has to leave Japan.

I go through mood swings about Japan, and they get less violent every year. My current mood is getting sunnier, for sure. I don't know if I've ever fully thought that "nearly everything about the Japanese system is wrong," but since the mainstream idea about Japan is "nearly everything about the Japanese system is right," I feel the need to chime in and say, hey, what about X (the lack of critical media, business collusion, authoritarian government masking as democracy, organized crime financial involvement in the arts, etc.)?

And I would like to repeat - I loved how interesting Japan was in the late 90s, and I have been disappointed with the decline of consumer culture in recent days. Surely, I would profit personally from a robust Japan - I don't want Japan to decline, but I can't lie if that's what I see.

I've come around to some of the post-Modern, cultural relativism ideas thrown at me on this blog, but I can't really condone when Momus starts veering into Apologist territory.

My New Year's Resolution will certainly be to keep the politics out of the Japan debate. I make a better objective social scientist than a shrill polemicist. All that I've read seems to suggest that the common view of Japan as Disneyland is incorrect, but I shouldn't be too hard on the place - it is my new home after all.

I don't know what it means for me, personally, to learn about "X," but nonetheless I am fascinated by what you have to say, Marxy. I am not completely satisfied with the POMO explanation in all cases (even though I believe it has its place), and you provide an interesting counterweight. So, say what you must and feel. JAPAN: It is simply what it is, you know (?), which is I think where you are coming from. Bigger than any categorization and big enough to take truth in stride, hopefully.

Anyway, I don't know if you are familiar with this site, but I find the content fascinating on many levels. Irreverent to poignant... Goto the bottom of the page to see the more compelling archive.

http://masamania.com/

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