"It's okay. Everyone said smart things, but maybe we need a new topic."so said marxy two days ago....

Now this....

Actually, the use in Assemble Insert (which was released in the US) is completely silly (and a bit ironic), kinda like the entire OVA. The plot involves selecting an idol to be superhero to fight Demon Seed, a typical mad scientist, by the Tokyo police. There's even a parody of energy drink commercials at the half-way point of each of the two OVAs.

I'm more surprised that a model was made of the mecha from the series, though it came out at the end of the Bubble Era (1990), when model and goods makers couldn't make enough anime and manga related merchandise.

Assemble Insert was written by Yuki Masami, a committed anti-fascist who also drew attention to Unit 731 war crimes in another manga of his - "Tetsuwan Birdy". Demon Seed is a crazy wanker so take that for whatever it is worth as well.

At least it's the powered suit of a "Demon Seed"...

Marxy, did you catch the Bape logos on those 24 Hour TV shirts?

"Marxy, did you catch the Bape logos on those 24 Hour TV shirts?"

Yeah, I have trying to figure out how to write about that since they were announced a couple of months ago.

I didn't catch the announcements, just saw the shirts on the morning TV and was like, "Uberharajuku".
Incidentally, the cynic in me wants to say that this 24-hour TV charity marathon would be an excellent way for "connected" jimusho to launder money. Is that an ungrounded flight of fancy or something so obvious that it's not even worth mentioning? In this heat I'm afraid my ability to distinguish between the two is out the window.

you're giving me the chills ..

Who said I am accusing anyone with this picture???

http://vice.typepad.com/vice_magazine/2007/08/germany---black.html

Well, we know one thing now: it's totally contrarian-progressive when Vice makes fun of modern-day blackface, but misguided and pathetic when you see such things on Neomarxisme.

Hells bells, Jim!
Well, there's no shortage of minstrel/blackface iconography in Japan, either...

"Well, we know one thing now: it's totally contrarian-progressive when Vice makes fun of modern-day blackface, but misguided and pathetic when you see such things on Neomarxisme."

It's misguided and pathetic when you want to act as PC watchdog over some plastic model of a sci-fi robot and a MK sold in the bookshop especially with the notes urging people to learn the lesson of the dark side of the history.No?
Vice is criticizing the incesitivity of the ad that does not match it's rescue Africa like message.
Anyway, if your intention is to fill the vacuum of what Jewish Defense League does in the states,
I have no objection.Hunting down every single anti-semite and enemy of Israel on the globe...
But what you are trying to do is sorta bad sense of humour...

inｃesitivity×
insensitivity○

I will start modeling my moral mission more after Vice now. Sorry about that.

"But what you are trying to do is sorta bad sense of humour..."

that is such a lame last-resort retort! c'mon, aceface, if you can say that, then you can say any serious critique of culture is ill-humoured. it's like frat boys saying a girl's a party pooper for not flashing her tits.

the imagined relationship between japan and the jews is certainly worth exploring-- j-mass culture is notoriously un-cosmpolitan, and so there is something compelling about this multi-ethnic group that lives all over the world. that fascination drags cultural artifacts like MK and kefiya into weird air pockets of j-culture.

I don't think that Ace's comments were lame. Marxy seems to be pleading the fifth on his motives behind posting the Assemble Insert picture but he did title it Mein Totally Cool Kampf 2 so it is obviously an attempted retort to our objections to his earlier interpretation.

I don't think that "pathetic" is the right world, maybe overly extreme in his interpretation of the significance of MK in VV and certainly way off base in posting the Assemble Insert thing as an example of Nazi cool without knowing the context.

Yuki Masami's stuff lampoons fascism and exposes war crimes to young readers. This is not a "weird air pocket" - air pockets only exist when you don't know anything about the context and turn to examining the "Japanese mind" or whatever. Assemble Insert and Yuki Masami's other works are fine examples of left ideology motivated popular production. Here, however, they are being used out of context as an example of why those clueless Japanese don't understand history and think Nazis are cool.

"j-mass culture is notoriously un-cosmpolitan"

There are more novels being translated into Japanese from other languages than there are being translated into English. People are invited on Japanese TV shows and speak in their native languages - when is the last time you saw this in the United States? Ever see a subtitled guest on Leno? You can learn French or Arabic or Italian on NHK. Fabulous "world heritage" documentaries as well. Korean TV boom - are shows in foreign languages with subtitles broadcast on mainstream American TV? Australian TV? BS1 (I think) broadcasts edited versions of news shows from all around the world with Japanese subtitles. Foreign acts / actresses / actors have huge followings. So why exactly is Japanese mass culture not cosmopolitan?

Or do you mean cosmopolitan in the sense of widely distributed internationally? Like Kurosawa films, Nintendo, manga, J-dramas in Asia, or what?

> relationship between japan and the jews

complete tangent but one of the first images that struck me when i first came to japan was seeing israeli people selling crap on the street. although i knew about it from israeli friends who had done it , used to seeing every shade of non-white person doing that in white man country, seeing the reverse had quite an impact. the 1968 Planet of the Apes was the first thing that came to mind (hello cornelius and the other guy)

>Australian TV

hey hey there's this

http://www.sbs.com.au/whatson/index.php3?tvsch=1

and it's neither cable nor sat. just normal telly (what do you call that

>Anyway, if your intention is to fill the vacuum of what Jewish >Defense League does in the states,

Er, I think (hope) you're thinking of the Anti-Defamation League. The JDL advocates the use of violence and had a schism after its head was investigated for plotting the assassination of an Arab-American congressman in 2001.

"and it's neither cable nor sat. just normal telly (what do you call that)"

Thanks for the list but I couldn't help but notice all of the "no subtitles" listings by those programs. That is not "mass culture" - it is broadcasts for minorities that don't cross over into the English mainstream. I wouldn't cite US Army Radio as an example of mass cosmopolitan culture in Japan because it is what it is - something not in the mainstream language and something aimed at a specific minority group.

Another example - Maori TV in New Zealand would be a good example of multi-culturalism, but in terms of "cosmopolitan mass culture" it does not really count because there is no real effort to bring it into the mainstream.

Let's face it, what are the chances of a non-English program being broadcast in prime time on US or Aussie television with subtitles and become a hit like Fuyu no Sonata? Japanese mass culture is not the most cosmopolitan out there but I don't think that its adequate level of pluralism and international engagement should be dismissed. Sure we can talk about weaknesses and tokenism but I don't think that it should be written off like neogeisha seemed to ("notoriously un-cosmpolitan"). Notorious with who?

notorious to people who have visited countries that have birth, rather than blood, requirement for citizenship. notorious to people who have visited cultures in which lucrative job posts are held by foreigners, and the average person is functionally bilingual.

So I guess you want Japan to turn into a random European country, right? Here is the heart of most of these Japan rants - why can't Japan be a "normal" country like country X. Of course, Europe is in the midst of a wave of xenophobia.

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/06/hate-crimes-on-rise-in-europe.php

About the blood thing. Japan being "notorious" in this way is the old Debito assertion that has been proven to be complete nonsense -
http://www.japanreview.net/essays_measuring_citizenship.htm

I'd also imagine that there is more bilingualism in Japan than in the United States, Australia, (both notorious for monolingualism in the mainstream population) or any number of other countries that are considered to be more cosmopolitan. Japan can't compete with Germany, but do people really think that it should?

As for jobs for foreigners - heard of Bobby Valentine or Carlos Ghosn or Ivica Osim? Plenty of prominent foreigners at Japanese universities as well, perhaps not as many as the USA but its something. In any case, the three individuals that I mentioned speak very little or no Japanese. The number of foreigners working "good" jobs in Japan will be small because of language issues. The number of people in other countries learning Japanese is tiny compared to the number of people learning English or French.

In other news, Zainichi have started a number of big Japanese companies - Lotte and Maruhan to name two.

This "Japan should get normal" line that you are taking might be fine for internet message boards but it reeks of "my country is better than Japan" or "Japanese don't think right" elitism.

m-bone, to put it kindly, your logic is faulty. to say that japanese culture tends toward the provincial is not the same as calling for it emulate other cultures. it is you who assumes cosmopolitanism to be inherently superior; again, it is you who considers multiculturalism to sit at the apex of cultural achievement. you should try to transcend the bourgeois ideal of the suave worldly guy in velvet smoking jacket, and stop insisting that japan fit into that mold. this blog shouldn't be an i-love-nippon contest-- it's way more interesting to read the cultural artifacts with a critical eye.

You are failing to make any arguments to support your assertions that Japan is somehow notorious in its provincialism.

If you are saying that Japan is provincial that raises the "provincial compared to what?" question, hence my resort to comparisons. If you re-read my posts, you will see that I'm not advocating for cosmopolitanism or multi-cultralism, I'm simply listing comparative examples and pointing out that Japan should be understood empirically (and without resort to essentialism) and not by holding it to hazy outside standards. You, on the other hand, are depending on generalizations.

Also, if you thought that being provincial and non-cosmopolitan was good (or a legitimate condition), you would not have used the word "notorious" - certainly a negative judgment. Basically, you were accusing me of holding cosmopolitan up as an ideal while you yourself were defining non-cosmopolitan as a negative. Two sides of the same rhetorical coin. It is all there in your posts.

In the end, this blog also shouldn't be a crap on Japan contest. I also don't think that I was having a Japan love-in or anything - I simply offered some examples to refute what I consider to be a negative generalization. If someone came on here and said that Japanese are the most moral people on earth, I'd feel motivated to refute such a generalization as well (nobody gets the most moral title).

A critical eye involves reading a work or a symbol in context and most importanly, citing evidence instead of making generalizations. Can you give me some reasons why you think that Japan is failing to live up to some standard when it comes to being "not provincial"? Maybe things that apply to Japan and not widely elsewhere, as you have been making the point that Japan is a notorious outlier in this way. You have to keep in mind that in discussing Japanese society, making generalizations is going to upset Japanese people. That's why Aceface has blown his top a few times over the course of the MK thing.

Please don't take any of this as hostile, you write well and I'd like to see you expand on your ideas. Saying that you are generalizing is not a personal attack. You too know that you are generalizing, right? Also, can I ask what is up with the no caps thing?

m-bone, i will try to expound on this without antagonizing you. i use "notorious" because j-provinciality is a bit of an international cliche, but like many cliches, its truth is often reinforced by reality. it has been my experience that j-culture creates a media-consumption climate in which readers/ viewers can relentlessly be exposed to international coverage without it actually penetrating their world-views. why? because looking and being are not the same condition. the former is voyeurism, and this, i argue is the tenor of the bulk of j-encounters with other cultures. why is this case? even i am not arrogant enough to try to nail it in a blog comment, but i will offer for discussion:
1. the linguistic insularity
2. the [cliche but still true] ethnic homogeneity
3. the early brainwashing of children
4. the social premium placed on passivity
5. the lack of real social mobility

the latter two serve to convince individuals that their destinies are sealed, as are their subjective boundaries, so it becomes futile to imagine reciprocal encounters with Others-- all one can do is Watch.

>all of the "no subtitles" listings by those programs.

yep, i realized that as i was linking. still, that wouldn't stop me and many of my mates from watching them all , from arabic to ukranian.

ultimately, both anglo-australian etc and japanese 'cosmopolitnism' are self-serving , hardly examples of say the radical hospitality derrida talked about in his later writings so comparing them strikes me as rather futile. particularly the thrill that the side one's taking might me the more tolerant one.

"used to seeing every shade of non-white person doing that in white man country, seeing the reverse had quite an impact. "

Ha, I felt exactly the same.

"3. the early brainwashing of children"

Better to use the term "social conditioning," but since all educational systems around the world enact social conditioning, you have to ask, what philosophies and worldly dispositions are they passing on to students? Once that is identified, then you can make the point of a specific ideological message. But it can't be "brainwashing" if this is endorsed within the whole of society, even at those at the top. I think the term 洗脳 for this kind of value-instillation just makes it an easy target for attack.

Also, with the education system, so much is the functional pressures for the rigid exams and university entrance that no matter what teachers teach, there will always be self-discipline/self-embodiment of social messages of Spartan struggle.

What are we talking about again? Right, Nazis.

Yes, this post was not very good in that I threw that up as a joke on the first one, but it looked like I was trying to give more "proof" of Nazi infiltration.

At the end of the day, I would still argue that historical and geographical circumstances make Japan less sensitive about the usage of Nazi symbols and interest in Nazis, but I wouldn't link that to "Nazi" sentiments brewing under society. There is a question of whether the Axis link should make knowing about Hitler a priority in Japan, but the ambiguity of the war in Japanese education makes it unlikely that it will happen.

Bonus question: is Char Aznable's popularity a vote for aristocracy? He isn't the most "Zeig Heil" of his fellow "Axis Zion," oops Zeon, guys, but he's better than that wimpy pacifist Amuro Ray. (By the way, the word is only put into English as "Zeon" because of a Frederick Schodt choice.)

Alin - yes, I agree that the examples of cosmopolitan mass culture in Japan that I mentioned are self serving. Mass culture pretty much has to be self serving to be mass.

"without it actually penetrating their world-views."

Going to have to disagree here. I believe that many Japanese are into international engagement that is both sincere and pretty prolific. I also don't think that children are "brainwashed" in Japan any more or less than in other societies that I have experience with nor do I think that social mobility is lacking in Japan (entrance exams can be a good thing, anyone can baito their way through a top university in Japan, just try that at Harvard; or you can just start your own company like the Zainichi I mentioned earlier). I'm not sure about the passivity argument either, given the prevalence of aggressive standouts in politics (Ozawa and Ishihara and Koizumi come to mind), forms of popular entertainment (Beat Takeshi + a million quirky assholish talent), and you could argue academia as well (any number of high profile iconoclasts).

Having said that, I do see you major points and I've had similar ideas along the same lines. Currently planning an essay about Tezuka Osamu's use of certain countries as a form of proving ground for Japanese characters - in these cases, conceiving of the other and the other's environment as a stage for (often very self serving) exploration of the self. I think that this is a little discussed side of Nihonjinron and pretty much just what you have been talking about. However, I restrict this type of analysis to individual texts / discourse cases (pretty much just Tezuka 1980s work and some similar trends in journalism) I don't use it as a means of understanding Japanese society as I have experienced it, and my wife / Japanese friends.

Would you mind sharing a bit about what brought you to think about Japan in these terms? Do you speak / read Japanese? Before I learned, I thought of Japan as very rigid in pretty much the same ways that you described.

"Yes, this post was not very good in that I threw that up as a joke on the first one, but it looked like I was trying to give more "proof" of Nazi infiltration."

All you had to do was say ha ha in a little blurb. We're not mind readers (^_^)

"I would still argue that historical and geographical circumstances make Japan less sensitive about the usage of Nazi symbols and interest in Nazis"

Less sensitive than who? South Africans? Koreans? Chinese? Ugandans? If you mean the USA I agree with you completely. However, you could argue that the USA has gone overboard on the Nazis in order to justify American military action in a variety of contexts in the postwar period by creating a heroic narrative. While I don't think that either of these approaches is "correct" it seems clear to me that the Nazis have been used primarily as an anti-war example in Japan (look how bad people are in war), while in the USA, the Nazis are a pro war example (must smash dictators and protect freedom).

I'd argue that while Japanese education may be ambiguous (to a point) on THE war, its take on WAR (sucks) is pretty clearly articulated. Are you also aware of how the new right are using the Nazis? Fascinating part of the contemporary scene - in the Tsukurukai book and elsewhere, they go out of their way to condemn the Nazis in extra special terms to make the Japanese militarists look better by comparison. I hate this kind of thing but at least the Japanese left and right have found something that they can agree on - Nazis suck). Funny to see the Japanese right using anti-racist parables as well.

I have not seen the original Gundam in ages, but I think that Char is popular for three reasons - he is awesome, his mecha is awesome, and he's more of the tortured loner (not as much to do with the fascist infrastructure as the other Gundam baddies). BTW, have you seen Gundam seed - quite a potent anti-fascist project there (genocide, racist organizations, etc. all discussed). Come to think of it, the Gamilus seijin in Yamato are also Nazis and come off looking pretty bad for the most part (until they completely shed the image and the atmosphere and the regalia in various sequels). In any case, I've never gotten that into Char. I'm more of a Harlock guy myself.

"I'm not sure about the passivity argument either, given the prevalence of aggressive standouts in politics (Ozawa and Ishihara and Koizumi come to mind), forms of popular entertainment (Beat Takeshi + a million quirky assholish talent), and you could argue academia as well (any number of high profile iconoclasts)."

You could make the point that the moral is aggressiveness is for the elite, whereas the masses should stay passive. Once at the top of a hierarchy in Japan, all the rules melt away. For example, being critical of the top is a big no-no, but being critical of the bottom is part of how order works.

"have you seen Gundam seed - quite a potent anti-fascist project there (genocide, racist organizations, etc. all discussed)."

I haven't, but I get the sense that they intentionally distort the storyline so that there are no parable-like Good Guys and Bad Guys.

"(entrance exams can be a good thing, anyone can baito their way through a top university in Japan, just try that at Harvard; or you can just start your own company like the Zainichi I mentioned earlier)"

Except that entrance exam results - like the SAT -
are perfectly correlated with parents' income. (I believe that Todai students' parents have the highest average income of all universities in Japan.) I would argue that Harvard/Princeton/Yale's look at a broader range of criteria (and very generous financial aid now for lower-income students) at least seems to bespeak an organizational structure set up for leveling the field as much as possible. The "only entrance exam" isn't more fair, because the whole very expensive juku system required for passage gives the wealthy a distinct advantage. This is not to say that rich Americans don't hire "coaches" to improve their applications, but the admissions board, in theory at least, is supposed to give disadvantaged students a leg up beyond scores etc. There is no perfect system, but I don't think a pure exam-based meritocracy works how Confucian had hoped - at least in this day in age.

"they can agree on - Nazis suck"

Again, any manner of "anti-Nazi" position would keep a "Punk" kid from wearing a swastika shirt. Those kids by default have to have no idea what they are wearing, unless you want to suggest they are pro-Nazi, which I doubt. I may find some cool Croatian shirt in a vintage store, but once I knew it was Ustaša related, I doubt I will still go out in it.

"You could make the point that the moral is aggressiveness is for the elite, whereas the masses should stay passive."

However, some members of the masses have become elite by being aggressive - Sanma, Beat Takeshi and Tamori were all born on the poor side of the fence and now basically rule Japanese TV. They also all have the @sshole thing down. Another good example lately is the Kameda family - making big money based on being a bunch of pricks as much as boxing skills (and they were dirt poor). There is also the whole yakuza thing - you can't tell me that there is no social mobility in Japan and that passivity pays when so many have scumbagged themselves into positions of power that way - and been worshiped for it in popular discourse.

"being critical of the top is a big no-no"

How do you explain how the press likes nothing better than a political scandal? Are you really telling me that you don't think Abe and the rest are being criticised?

Gundam Seed - there is no "good" side or "bad" side but there are good and bad individuals and groups - scumbag racists and killers who get theirs in the end (destroy themselves with violence that they start, hence war is bad).

"Juku system required for passage"

Not a chance. There have been quite a few studies lately about this. A lot of the achievers are not going to juku. There has been a big turnaround in the past decade. Well known Japan forum poster Earl Kinmouth (sp?) is always on about this.

You should read what the Chronicle of Higher Education has to say about prohibitive tuition at the top American schools. You make some good points but if you have ability and motivation, you can get into a top Japanese uni. In the United States, you have to wonder how many people from depressed neighborhoods are able to meet the volunteer and extra-curricular requirements, etc. May be well rounded, but the conventional wisdom is that it slants the admissions process greatly in the favor of rich kids, not the kids who are worried about getting stabbed in class.

Some net checking tells me that less than 1% of Harvard students come from families that are living on less than $25,000 a year. England is notoriously bad in keeping poor kids out of Oxbridge, I hear.

I didn't see any stats for the Japanese unis (apart from one that suggests that a high percentage of Todai students are from families that make far more than the national average) but I've also not heard Japanese young people complaining about crippling student loan debt - what seems like the only topic of conversation among American and Canadian 20-somethings. I'll stand by my statements that Japanese universities are accessible and a path to social mobility.

Canada, coincidently, has scholarship exams instead of the SAT test. My family is not a very rich one (and I went to shitty schools) but I'm an existentialist - I threw down and I got myself free tuition. Japanese kids can too. I like these exams and see them as a potential great equalizer.

In any case, we also should not forget that over the past 50 years, university became super accessible in Japan and helped to create the "mass middle class" which, while partly a myth, is still worlds away from the cycles of rural poverty that Japanese in their 70s and 80s assumed would be their entire lot in life.

"Again, any manner of "anti-Nazi" position would keep a "Punk" kid from wearing a swastika shirt."

But doesn't that style come from UK punk? In Germany, we have the most powerful anti-Nazi education globally (duh) and the most thugs making use of Nazi iconography (in vandalism, etc.) of anywhere in Europe. Russia has strong anti-Nazi education.... and a growing and increasingly violent Neo-Nazi movement that has taken the German symbols lock stock and barrel (still don't know how to consider this one). Point = education can fail and symbols have different meanings in different environments and some people can't tell the difference between being trendy and being an ass. Also going to repeat my earlier point - where did you learn about the swastika? I learned about it in school, but I can't remember learning as much about concentration camps (which were brushed over). In my experience with Japanese sekai-shi and nihon-shi textbooks (and supplemental educational materials) there is more emphasis on the genocide and the human stories. I think that a (admittedly not very sharp) kid could know that Nazis are bad and yet think that the swastika is a "German thing" or more likely "a cool army thing" or "something like Gundam". In North American education, swastika = Nazis, but in Japanese education, I think that it is more Nazis = killers .

This was one occasion where I thought the "joke" was fairly straightforward, like "oh and some dude from a Japanese toy website sent me a pic of a cute, chubby mech called Meinkampf, ain't that a hoot." The lack of a caption save for a picture credit reinforced that. I think we all got a little winded from the first MK post, but somehow we ended up back in the serious section.

"they go out of their way to condemn the Nazis in extra special terms to make the Japanese militarists look better by comparison"
This is the same tactic Putin likes to use when defending the equally repressive and genocidal Soviet regime as the force that crushed fascism. He'd be wise no to forget about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, Adolf and Josef carving out their spheres of influence.

"I think that a (admittedly not very sharp) kid could know that Nazis are bad and yet think that the swastika is a "German thing" or more likely "a cool army thing" or "something like Gundam"."

I think that's my point - that these small details are important. That Hitler is not just Wilhelm III, etc.

Marxy said: "the admissions board, in theory at least, is supposed to give disadvantaged students a leg up beyond scores etc."

Marxy, while you're absolutely right about Todai admissions correlating with family wealth, but how ironic is it, given the current topic, that American college admissions boards were in fact originally created to help "disadvantaged" WASP students compete with Jews?

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlarge

As Gladwell (also Canadian, M-Bone) hints in the last paragraph, a similar dynamic is playing out with Asian students today. Take a look at the UC system today: One joke making the rounds has UCLA as "University of Caucasians Lost Among Asians." White fear aside, there are important issues of the intent/result of affirmative action concerned as well.

"no matter what teachers teach, there will always be self-discipline/self-embodiment of social messages of Spartan struggle."

It's precisely this not-so hidden "hidden curriculum" that's the real problem, in my eyes.

M-Bone said: "I'd argue that while Japanese education may be ambiguous (to a point) on THE war, its take on WAR (sucks) is pretty clearly articulated."

Well, I think the insipid, empty "war is bad" pacificism of Japanese education is pretty useless at best. See my comments on the topic (as "guest") towards the end of this thread:

http://www.pliink.com/mt/marxy/archives/2005/10/relax-on-peace.html

"I didn't see any stats for the Japanese unis (apart from one that suggests that a high percentage of Todai students are from families that make far more than the national average)"

Lots to chew on here:

http://www.palgrave-journals.com/hep/journal/v19/n1/full/8300108a.html

As for student debt, you certainly won't hear me defend it. Public schools shouldn't charge tuition, preschool through postdoc, if you ask me. Otherwise, why bother creating "public" institutions in the first place? Let the market do it instead.

marxy, have you seen this movie ?

http://movie.goo.ne.jp/dvd/detail/D111871684.html

it's the only movie that brought me near the point of crying in too long to remember... and it doesn't say one single bad or judgemental thing about the man.

i strongly recommend it.

btw. i also thought the joke-factor of this entry was pretty clear - and a very good entry in that sense.

"Lots to chew on here:"

Fatal failing in the article (I'm not being a prick here, I've peer reviewed academic journal articles before and this is the kind of thing that they want us to write) - while it is able to successfully argue that private schools are where its at in Japan (pretty common knowledge) I think that the USA comparison is off base. Most (if not all) of the students entering these competitive feeders in Japan are subject to competitive entrance exams. As I said before, I believe that this links in to meritocracy. The better private schools in Canada and the UK (not sure about the US but I don't see it being different) charge prohibitive tuition - I've heard of as much as $40,000 per year. Weaker students are admitted because of financial resources while in Japan, you can't buy your way around the exam (in normal circumstances). In comparison, many of the top Japanese private schools charge far, far less (5-10 man per month or about $5-10,000 per year with similar potential for scholarships and tuition breaks). $10,000 may put an average family into hardship but $40,000 puts an average family into the street.

Of course, there is one area is Japan where the lack of social mobility is obvious - Japanese medical schools get away with charging the same prohibitively huge tuition that American schools do.

"Public schools shouldn't charge tuition, preschool through postdoc, if you ask me. Otherwise, why bother creating "public" institutions in the first place?"

Or if they are going to do it, they should do what Japanese public unis do - the average yearly tuition at Todai is about FIVE THOUSAND BUCKS. You could make that in a month working as a katei kyoshi. Let's take a step back, look at that number, and think about social mobility for a second. You pay half as much for you time at Todai as you do for a year at Harvard (admittedly private but the same ticket stamp that Todai represents).

Lately, it has been revealed that Harvard gets only a small percentage (3%?) of its operating money from tuition. They are a financial powerhouse but the conventional wisdom around academia is that they still stick a $150,000 wall up in front of poor students (that's without living expenses) because of conservatives in the faculty and administration worried about the university's atmosphere.

Brown - interesting opinion on the state of Japanese pacifism. I tend to think that any pacifism (especially the type which has, according to public opinion polls, kept Japanese from wanting nukes, led to public expressions of contrition over the wars of the 30s and 40s, and maintained support for article 9) is better than the alternative. When I consider the war drunk rhetoric that has been coming from China, Russia, South Korea (large numbers of young people saying that they would support the North in a war against the USA), America, and even increasingly Canada.... makes me glad that Japan has popular constraints on their leadership.

M-Bone, you make good points, but I'd like to see some quotes on how much tution is at these Todai feeder schools. I have a hard time believing they're only charging $5K/year for the veritable keys to the kingdom! And even if this is the case, this hypothetical Todai student's family would still have to shell out at least $15K years in advance just to give their kid a shot.

Let's also recall that public universities in the US are significantly cheaper than Harvard. To use the UC system as an example again, its flagship schools are comparable to Harvard and (I would argue) better than Todai, and resident tuition is around $7-8K/year, which adds up to about the same as a (cheap) private high school and Todai.

So, public high school + Berkeley will end up costing you about the same as a (cheap) private high school + Todai, but you don't have to shell out all that money up front before you get in, and you can even transfer up from the community college system (as many students do) and save big bucks. Plus they might even make you learn something at UC (OK, that's totally uncalled for, I admit it, but hey, it's the internet)!

I'm also very skeptical that even a name-brand Todai student could make $5K/month as a katei kyoshi. I mean, are there really $60K/year (legal) baito? What kind of hours are we talking about here?

I wish that I had the time to hunt up the tuition numbers for the biggest feeders.　Just have 3 minutes to do one or two - Hiroshima Gakuin puts about 20 students into Todai annually. Tuition - 14 man for nyugaku, 4 man for month after that - actually a lot less than I thought.... Looks like the tops in the country is Kaisei, a Tokyo feeder, ouch, about 50 man for nyugaku, but only about 4 man per month after that. While this is going to be an pain in the ass for some Japanese families, the median monthly income is 522629 yen and these numbers are not crippling (considering strategic saving for a child's education as well).

The UofC system is badass, but this discussion started about how Japanese kids can go from the basement to the attic so the speak. Todai (for all of its faults as a institution of higher learning) is a lifetime pass for social mobility. Harvard is. Stanford is. I don't think that the UofC schools are (which really, apart from Berkley, have more of a regional reputation for someone from elsewhere in North America). They guarantee higher income, but "elite" status?

I'm not saying that USA = shithole for poor. This discussion started with claims to the effect that there is no or limited social mobility in Japan. I think that I've demonstrated here that, even without scholarships, the best Japanese feeder schools have reasonable tuition and universities are very good as well. This, combined with merit based exams, gives talented kids the POTENTIAL to go all of the way. The relatively low tuitions in Japan should be something that schools in other countries should use as a model.

Once again, check this out (down in "private schools") http://70.47.124.114/node/833
It seems that the US schools with the best Ivy entrance records cost upwards of $30,000 per year (and they go up to $50,000 and beyond). Given that the median US family income is about $40,000.... you see my point? So at the best Japanese private schools, you will be paying a bit over half of ONE US year for both your entrance money and your 3 years.

Plenty of chances in the USA with a public school degree. Plenty of social mobility. But, c'mon, you can't tell me that there is no social mobility in Japan given merit based exams (virtually exclusive use) and tuition fees, both for top private highschools and top universities, that are tiny in international comparison.

As for the Baito, $5000 in a month would be pushing it. However, I've heard about Todai students getting 8000 yen an hour for katei kyoshi and 30,000 yen an hour for lecturing at a juku. If you went balls out for a whole month you could probably make 500,000. Of course, I don't think that you could keep that up over a year and I didn't suggest that anyone should....

"I'm not saying that USA = shithole for poor."

Well, I certainly would say that, unfortunately. And Japan is not much better. In fact, I'm not sure what we'll get out of comparing which "meritocracy" is better, when the whole concept is a crock:

http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2006/0106guinier.html

Getting into an elite school correlates to family wealth/status. That's pretty much the end of the story, as far as I'm concerned. Bourdieu nailed it in "Reproduction in Education, Society, and Culture."

Should be "correlates with," of course. I blame my class background!

Anyway, weren't we talking about Nazis and robots and stuff?

Yeah, but you did see my POTENTIAL in all caps up there right? I think that it is consistent across all developed societies that the rich or well to do will push their kids harder, put them into a better environment for achievement, etc. In Japan, I think that by taking the $$$ out of the equation (or making it not such a big deal), you at least give achievers the potential for social mobility that would not exist if $100,000 + tuition barriers were in place.

The fact that Japan's meritocracy is a roughly quantitative one and favors students who are good at that kind of test taking (whether this is a good measure of anything is another discussion) makes it a bit different than the well rounded American version where well rounded often means the leisure and $$$ to play lacrosse, volunteer at the soup kitchen (as opposed to going), etc.

I think that any Japanese family that has a stable 250,000 + income per month (about $2500) can see their kids grow up in a neighborhood / danchi where violent crime and drugs will not be an impediment to education. Not true of the USA.

In any case, I think that you and I also have different definitions of "shithole" (^_^) I think that violent crime (concentrated in less well off neighbourhoods), drugs and as we have been talking about lately, AIDS, make America shittier for its poor than Japan is for its but we can all agree that being poor (and Nazis) sucks.

"we can all agree that being poor (and Nazis) sucks."

Hey that's depoliticized enough that it could make it into a textbook! I mean, sure poverty and fascism suck, but more importantly, why do they exist, and how do they function? I'm not really suggesting that you need to answer these questions on Marxy's blog, but you get my drift...

Potential, poschmential. As far as social mobility goes, I usually encounter it (which I guess this says something about the circles I move in) as a kind of "I coulda been a contenda" self-insult to injury- a stick disguised as a carrot. Not that people would be happy with a perfect meritocracy, mind you, because then they wouldn't have any excuses for failure (as Alin no doubt knows, I'm getting this last line straight from Zizek)!

Also, I don't know that growing up poor in Japan is all that crime/violence free- didn't our favorite maverick Beat Takeshi have a pretty brutal childhood?

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,98030,00.html

"I watched yakuza guys getting stabbed in the stomach, punched in the head, all that stuff, ever since I was a kid," he recalls. In Brother there's a scene in a sushi restaurant in which a gangster rams chopsticks up the nostrils of a rival gangster. Then he punches him in the face. "I saw that once when I was a kid," Beat says. "That's how I got the idea."

...

"My childhood was just a succession of nervousness and tension," he remembers. "We all froze the minute we heard my father come through the door. It really twisted me. I don't remember ever having a normal conversation with him. I hated him."

His older brother, Masaru Kitano, a chemistry professor, says that Beat actually takes after their father. "Our father was shy and frustrated with his life. He didn't have a place in our home, so he turned to alcohol. He used to hit our mother, sure, but that was very common then."

Yes, Beat and his brother eventually made it to the top, but what about the thousands of other hoodrats in Adachi-ku? Bill Clinton became prez, but a similar OUTCOME (my turn to use all caps) is highly unlikely for other poor kids in America.

Lastly, I'd say that name-brand recognition of your uni doesn't go nearly as far in the US as it does in Japan. Somebody had some numbers on this a while back, I think it may have been on here, but, as my class betters are wont to do, I'll take the liberty of saying that "I don't recall"...

Beat Takeshi was a lot poorer than the 250,000 a month level that I mentioned. He was also growing up in the 50s - the postwar yakuza heyday and a time in which Japan, on just about any level from drug abuse (hiropon) to street violence, was a whole lot scarier place than it is now. Need to historically bind the discussion. And yet BT still found himself socially mobile (^_^)

I think that Harvard still has the name recognition equivalent to Todai.... It is certainly common knowledge in academia (look at the scare-heavy Chronicle of Higher Education job seeking forum) that Ivy's only hire their own in 98 out of a 100 cases. There was also a Business Week survey a few years back that confirmed it - Harvard grads earn more on average than graduates from any other university, followed by Yale, Princeton, etc. Is this really a surprise?

As for my encounters with social mobility - a lot of Japanese I know working in pretty good jobs (science and engineering and academic mainly) grew up in pretty average circumstances and managed to entrance exam themselves into national unis (I did research at one for two years) decent careers and money. Japanese that I know making little money usually didn't care much for school....

Marxy, have you thought about trying to sign up M-Bone, Aceface and the rest of the usual suspects for this new multi-author project you keep hinting at? I always find it odd that some people are willing to write screeds in someone else's comment section (certain commenters churn out more column inches than the guy who runs this place) but won't go out on a limb with their own blog. That's not meant as a dig - I just think it's a real shame that all this great material deserving of its own stage ends up buried under a comments link.

I'm kicking my walls not to join in the rumble for I'm now here in Okinawa with my family.

And one thing.I just saw a girl in Kokusai Dori in Naha with a tattoo of you-know-what.Think she's an Oi band fan......

"I just think it's a real shame that all this great material deserving of its own stage ends up buried under a comments link."

Seriously, I write most of this stuff while I am waiting for other players to have their go in online Mahjong. Sometimes I go around and research stuff like tuition for 5 or 10 minutes, but that's really because I am flat out curious about it. I have my own Japan ideas that I end up writing academic articles about but here, people bring up things that I have not considered seriously in a while (like I "knew" that Japanese private feeder schools had low tuition but didn't have any numbers) and if I write something, I often get something insightful back. I like the give and take but don't want the responsibility of having my own blog (which would eat into serious research time anyway).

Ace - Kokusai dori has the highest concentration of off the rocker war nuts anywhere in Japan so she could be one of those....

"Weaker students are admitted because of financial resources while in Japan, you can't buy your way around the exam (in normal circumstances)."

At Keio (and I assume, most of the other private schools), there are "recommendation" admissions where students can bypass the exams. A school will only have a couple of these recommendations, but they do let you "go around." Question is whether HS teachers are really giving these to promising kids or not. My guess is that they are.

Keio though has a whole primary and secondary school system, and students can proceed directly to Keio. This is totally "buying" into a first-rate university. These students are seen in the way legacies at Ivies are: dumb kids who didn't necessarily work to get there. But seeing that you don't really learn anything in Japanese universities, you've got the Keio brand forever. And since you're someone rich's kid, Dentsu will hire you. (Dentsu makes an effort to get the kids of the rich and powerful.)

"They are a financial powerhouse but the conventional wisdom around academia is that they still stick a $150,000 wall up in front of poor students"

Harvard's far from perfect, but 75% of students are on some manner of financial aid and they recently announced that the poorest students would get a completely free ride.

"Bill Clinton became prez, but a similar OUTCOME (my turn to use all caps) is highly unlikely for other poor kids in America."

I think the real "rags to riches" narrative in the US is only applicable to immigrants and their children. I doubt that you see much mobility anywhere in the world for 3rd generation members of the underclass. Japan probably has less social mobility overall with very few immigrants.

"Lastly, I'd say that name-brand recognition of your uni doesn't go nearly as far in the US as it does in Japan. "

A Harvard degree don't hurt, of course, but it doesn't get you automatic entry into the business and government elite like a Todai degree in Japan. Or say it this way, are most CEOs in the US former Harvard undergraduates? I doubt it. (My fuzzy recollection is that University of Michigan or something has a plurality, just because of the massive diversity in degrees.) Keio and Todai, however, do take the top spots in Japan.

"Marxy, have you thought about trying to sign up M-Bone, Aceface and the rest of the usual suspects for this new multi-author project you keep hinting at?"

I'd very much like to, but I don't know who they are! (I know Aceface, but he seems busy with his real job.)

I hope though when Neojaponisme starts, that they will write to me so we can figure out how to contribute, wink wink. Cause yes, I too want to read their work.

"I'm kicking my walls not to join in the rumble for I'm now here in Okinawa with my family."

That sounds a lot nicer than being in Tokyo.

"Question is whether HS teachers are really giving these to promising kids or not. My guess is that they are."

I've read a few of the far right complaining that it is being used as a way to give a boost to burakumin and zainichi so word is that it is turning into an AA program (ie. social mobility). I kinda like the idea, as if bright kids in the mainstream population don't like it, they can always suck it up and ace the exams.

"This is totally "buying" into a first-rate university."

I'm a total public school Japan snob so I was writing Keio off a bit.... However, you do have to be a consistent achiever to make it all of the way, and committed. Not like the often shady side of Ivy admissions (especially in the second tier). In any case, its not like I'm arguing that money won't get you a long way in Japan - it sure will - however, compared to the USA endowments and extra points if your daddy went to this Ivy or that and the common Japanese necessity of doing very well on "objective" exams for the big three (as well as the big regionals - Kyudai, Kindan, Kandai, Kumamoto) it certainly does give achievers a leg up. On the rich side of things, there is also the fact that a lot of Ojosama end up going to nantoka nantoka joshi daigaku gakuin to sew and sleep with bikers for two years.

"75% of students are on some manner of financial aid and they recently announced that the poorest students would get a completely free ride."

But that "financial aid" can be a break of $5000 or so in most of the cases (wow, so now its only $29,000). The poorest (1% of students incidentally) do get the free ride but that is a tuition free ride - unless they get a (rare) scholarship otherwise, they are going to have to find a way to pay for the other things associated with university life which is out of the question for families living on less than the median income in the USA. Japanese universities have need based scholarships as well.

I think that the Japanese low tuition, even for top schools, system is great. While you have a point that Harvard and others try to give poor students a break I don't think that your comments would go over big in American higher education circles where the biggest current debates tend to be about continuing serious tuition barriers, the priority placed on ethnic diversity over class diversity (which I agree with to a certain extent), etc.

"Japan probably has less social mobility overall with very few immigrants."

Skewing the discussion a bit but I see your point. Now that you mention it, I also think that America has a far larger underclass than Japan does as most of Japan's underclass moved out of that status in the 60s and 70s. Kakusa shakai has nothing on the kind of horrors illustrated in something like the latest season of "The Wire" for example (which is backed up by a great number of sociological writings about Baltimore). Comparing New Orleans and Kobe (some very poor areas) is also an eye opener for me. In any case, America may have "more" social mobility from the recent immigrant underclass but there are also more people not moving up causing the bottom to become a bit too heavy. This is the pattern in Canada as well where there are some great success stories and a shocking increase in shooting deaths concentrated in some of Toronto's poorest neighborhoods.

"I hope though when Neojaponisme starts, that they will write to me so we can figure out how to contribute, wink wink. Cause yes, I too want to read their work.'

I'll be happy to throw something your way. Under the "M-Bone" name, if you don't mind. I come across plenty of interesting Japan things that would fit better here than in my academic writing.

"Under the "M-Bone" name, if you don't mind."

Thanks for the offer. Let's talk. I have interviewed a serious American academic for the opening contents, and I have two more in the works. So this isn't something you'd be necessarily ashamed of. Or we can just change your pen name to something with out the word "Bone" in it.

"While you have a point that Harvard and others try to give poor students a break I don't think that your comments would go over big in American higher education circles where the biggest current debates tend to be about continuing serious tuition barriers, the priority placed on ethnic diversity over class diversity"

No, I agree that tuition is still a barrier in US higher education and that costs are unlike anything seen elsewhere in the world. The question is whether all these poor kids are getting into Harvard and then declining to go there because of a lack of money, or whether they aren't getting in to start because of more structural barriers.

I do agree with the race vs. class issue, although that's a very sensitive one in the States.

"Ashamed" isn't it. I just like the freedom to talk wise when I want to. Not always something that you can do in academia.

Also, its not that kind of "Bone". I had a t-bone that looked like a "M" the night I first posted under the name and really couldn't think of anything else. Seriously. Anyway, keep us posted on how the project is developing and wait until I ride out the frantic fall semester start....

"The question is whether all these poor kids are getting into Harvard and then declining to go there because of a lack of money, or whether they aren't getting in to start because of more structural barriers."

I'd say both. One of those structural barriers would also have to be whole segments of the US populations graduating from high school with basic (at best) literacy and never having had half a chance from the get go. However, social mobility does exist in both the USA and Japan. I seriously think that some elements of the "system" that give the potential for social mobility in Japan would also do well for many people in the USA.

Shouldn't be bothered with Nazi influence upon J-youth culture so much,when you are swiming in the beach in Kerama.....

What do you all make of Manchester's only cultural contribution to the 20th century,NEW ORDER/JOY DIVISION?
So Britons too have whacky ideas on "the imagined relation with the Jews worth exploring"just like us Japanese or what?

Yeah,we should really talk about your new project et al(including MK) over a beer or two right after I get back,marxy.

Yes, indeed.

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